Something I don't understand about Pres. Obama

Hello Bey

Why do I think that the last US president with a grasp of economics was Richard Nixon?

Originally posted by Roberts Originally posted by pikeshot1600 h.  The North has become Democratic, and the South Republican, where 100 years ago it was the reverse. Are American western states like California, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Nevada etc. divided along south/north lines or they are seen as sepperate block?

Edited by pikeshot1600 - 10-Feb-2009 at 14:32

Originally posted by Sparten Exhibit A, Barack Hussein Obama.

Edited by edgewaters - 10-Feb-2009 at 19:43

Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello Bey   Could you please explain to me why people will not vote for thier own best interest?

What is left to explain? People are conditioned into a mindset that causes them to vote against their own interests. Mind you, they are not doing this consciously, they believe they are in fact voting for their best interests. The lower classes are lured in with conservative social policies (anti-gay rights, anti-abortion, anti-prostitution etc.) and end up voting for an economic system that will keep them earning 10 dollars an hour, without being able to afford adequate health care or higher education for their children.

Originally posted by Leonidas Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello Bey   Could you please explain to me why people will not vote for thier own best interest?   Mind you I live in a country where there is no democracy.   Al-Jassas people vote in short term ways. It will normally be 'whats in in for me' and stuff that makes sense for themselves but little for the greater good. People prefer tax cuts and hand outs over strategic nation building stuff, until one day the networks are that bad they want both. Throw in three key messages and snazzy catch phrases and democracy has been dumbed down into a instant snack.

Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello Bey   The US never had a real left wing or even center party. All American parties espoused right wing politics, some to the extreme some to the center but always within the right wing spectrum.   The second point is that you contradict yourself. People naturally will vote for the people who serve them, this is in the end the real meaning of democracy. You have no right calling a guy who votes for his interests "brainwashed" because the guy chose what is good for him.

gcle 2003, wrote above concerning middle class tax cuts;

"Only because big coporations don't pay any taxes worth mentioning."

Since gcle--- is no longer posting at this site, this post is directed to others.

So, without fear of an answer by gcle--, I would suggest that he would feel more comfortable if "Big Business" was more heavily taxed! I would also suppose that he would feel this would be of help to Middle Class Americans!

If any other current respondents to this site are familar with the posts and attitude of gcle---, maybe you can either tell me that I have made the wrong suppositions or the correct ones?

Assuming my suppostions are correct, I would just like to point out that if a nation decides it can support certain groups of people based in a large part upon the taxes collected from "Big Business", then you hardly know anything about economics!

The reality is that no matter what the tax rate for "Big Business" might be set, "Big Business" pays absolutely "NO TAX" in any event!

Thank about that?

Why do you suppose I make such a statement?

It is simple! For any business, taxes are merely a "Cost of Doing Business!" (CODB), they may be "indirect", but costs they are! And costs they are listed under when doing the bookkeeping! Note, I am only providing a quick and easy way to understand this, but in essence "Profit", or "Net Profit" is determined after the CODB are subtracted.

Of course, if this business actually produces a product that requires manufacture, etc., and one that is in any manner also in direct competition with other manufactures of a like or similar procuct, then the business must also remain competitive in its pricing!

Now here we enter a very tangible area whereby the success or failure of the business is predicated. In most areas, the business remains competitive, even with a great tax burden, only when its employees can become more effective in the production of the product, while reducing costs in other areas or at least holding costs in a level status.

This is a manner of increasing the "productivity" level of the employees, either thru wage restrictions, or via machinery that displaces workers, or other methods, etc. (One may notice that American "productivity" has been amongst the highest of any industralized nation in the world for a long time!)

Again, simplfying things, if the Big Business receives a new tax burdern of 10% of its Gross Profit, it can in the right conditions merely raise the price of its product by the same 10% and remain OK!

But, that is just an example in the simplist manner to confirm my statement that NO Big Business actually pays any taxes, the cost of taxes is much like the cost of raw material, and labor, etc., it is ultimately passed on to the consumer!

The problem is, that these taxes of they become too onerous, can quite quickly make the cost of thier product or service become too expensive for those desiring the product. Rising taxation creates rising prices, which creates inflation, job loss, reduction in the products quality, deferring to cheaper imports, etc.!

Suddenly the taxes being collected by government plumment, and they by necessity decide that only higher taxes will replenish the coffers! ETc.

You see, it becomes a round robin of increases, failures, and recession or depression, etc.! Jobs, are sent to overseas corporations where taxes are low, as are wages, etc.! You see much the same thing happening in the USA for the last 30 years or so, whereby a business is given a 10 year tax free status just for building a factory in some American State, over another one! (some of these businesses are foreign owned1)

Sometimes, you might even notice that these same companies move to another state giving them tax free status for another ten years!

You see, competition costs!

More socialist nations like France, England, Germany or name one, actually do not tax "Big Business" they give these industries capital, in the form of subsidies! They know that these businesses cannot compete in the world without help! I.e., their overhead or costs are too high! Unions resist pay cuts or even pay stabalization and the reduction of other benefits! But, you can see just what is happening in some of these nations today!

So, just how does a nation get out of a financial crisis? Default, soon to happen to Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc.! Or do we all endure a period of rampant inflation, but control of costs of labor, etc.! Fixed debts based upon a currency like the Dollar, can be easily be paid off if one is depreciating the value of that Dollar or Euro, etc.! Rampant inflation can take care of the debt! Wages will not be linked to the inflation rate however! Making costs, (CODB) less! The rich, will all go to precious metals, but just like FDR, ownership will be made illegal! Lifestyles will be forced to change! Bicycles and motor bikes will become predominate,as will busses, and trains! Distant enclaves of homes and businesses will fold,no more surburban living!

Guns will be outlawed and confiscation begun! Every night will be a "martial law" night! Costs of goods and services will be controlled. Re-education and building camps will be developed! Inneficient or single home status will be crushed! Energy efficiency will dominate every life!

All will be great for these New Progressives!

So, tax away! Let's see just where it gets you?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 19-May-2010 at 12:12