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Interracial dating
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Interracial dating
    Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 13:09
Originally posted by Northman

It might sound sterile and boring to us, and we can make rich statements like that in our safe environment being who we are,  but I'm sure the people on the receiving end of racism don't find it to be informal, nor do they think of it as a part of a game.


See this is what I mean by sterile and boring. We're on this planet for too short a time to start taking it seriously. LOL

Notice how this thread is starting to become way too serious for the tavern. People have such a tense relationship with races they can't even have a lighthearted chat about interracial dating.
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calvo View Drop Down
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 22:18
Originally posted by pinguin

The explanation for me is simple. Human beings were tribal people until not more than 5.000 years ago, and in many cases even until recent times. Tribes are small group of people higher interrelated among them and highly uniform. For them, any physical difference, no matter how small it was, noticed in others human beings meant danger.
 
In modern days, humans are expossed to more varied people. However, even these days, when somebody visible different appears in a group that aren't accustummed to those phenotypes, reactions happened. The people different from the perceive "normal" average, it is in risk of being discriminated. That's seen all over the world, even in Africa you can see how pigmeys, for instance, are discriminated by bantues, and how hutus and tutsis killed each other because differences to us are trivial. 
 
 
I agree with you that humans have tribal instincts, and we always have to divide people into "in groups" and "out groups".
Nevertheless, tribal societies were not quite as endogamic as you might think; because when human beings move in bands of small numbers, it is VERY necessary to absorb genes from the outside world to avoid inbreeding.
 
This is why many Central Asian nomad peoples, such an Turkic and Mongol peoples, are strongly exdogamic. To many of them, marrying within one's tribe was almost a taboo.
despite their strong tribal instincts, they constantly mix with those around them and as a result, they tend to display the phenotypes of their neighbouring peoples.
Many ancient Turkic and Mongol tribal federations (the Xiongnu, Gokturks, Kipchaks etc) were united by a common language and culture, but "racially" speaking they were VERY heterogeneous, with Mongoloids at the eastern end and Europoids at the western end; with the vast majority somewhere in between.
 
Xenophobia had no doubt existed in their society, but "colour racism" as known in the modern colonial era certainly did not exist.
 
Citing other examples; many ancient empires, such as Rome, Egypt, and Persia, were also multi-cultural and multi-racial societies. divisions among tribal lines was certainly present, but among "skin colour" apparently did not.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 23:28
Well, in the Colonial Spanish Empire, the reality was quite different. Although people lived together, everyone stayed at its place. And everyone understood key saying such as "improving the race". Therefore, for me is hard to believe racism was absent in ancient empires.
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 23:38
No, its because appearance is only one of the ways we differentiate and discriminate against people. We have, and will again, invent any weird and crazy criteria we wish.
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calvo View Drop Down
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2008 at 07:09
Originally posted by pinguin

Well, in the Colonial Spanish Empire, the reality was quite different. Although people lived together, everyone stayed at its place. And everyone understood key saying such as "improving the race". Therefore, for me is hard to believe racism was absent in ancient empires.
 
Yes, DISCRIMINATION has always existed in every society, and so did social class exist in EVERY society; but social class had not always been defined by "racial appearance".
The modern concept of race is heavily influenced by the colonialism in the last few centuries, during which most, if all all empires were of European origin, and therefore the "upper classes" of the empires had European facial features.
The add to that was the African slave trade, during which subconsciously, people tended to equate black skin with "slavery".
 
In Ancient Empires, caste systems and discrimination did exist between the nobility and the commoners, the freemen and the slaves, yet up to now, I have not heard of a single ancient empire who held a census that divided its population by skin colour, hair colour etc.
 
The Romans, the Chinese, and the Persians, placed great emphasis on one's tribal origins; yet "tribal origins" were a rather fluid concept as one could be "adopted" by another tribe and become a fully-fledged member. It is probabaly very similar to what we call today: nationality.
Slaves did exist and were often treated harshly, yet it wasn't defined by colour. In the Egyptian, Roman, and Persian empires, there were slaves of light and dark skin; as well o nobility of light and dark skin.
 
The Roman Empire indeed treated its colonies very harshly, yet "Romaness" was never defined by "race", especially "race" in the modern concept. the city of Rome itself was founded by 2 very distant ethnic groups: Latins and Etruscans; and the early Roman nobility had members of both bloodlines, as well as the plebeians.
In the colonies, many pure-blooded natives became Roman citizens and ten rose up the ranks to become part of the nobility, or even the Emperor. Out of all the Roman dynasties, only the first 2 were of Italian origin. Later on there were Hispanics, North Africans, Syrians, Illyrians etc.
 
Even today, the importance of "racial appearance" differs from society to society.
In the USA and South Africa there was apartheid, yet in Egypt, having darker or lighter skin had little to do with one's social status, instead, it was whether you're Christian or Muslim.
 
Many other nationalities like Tatars, Uzbeks, Uighurs also display very diverse racial appearance from pure Mongoloid to nordid caucasoids; yet unlike in Latin America, these nationalities do not consider one type of racial features to be "socially superior" than another because historically they did not have a "racially-defined" nobility.
I'm sure they have other ways to discriminate one from the other, but certainly not by colour.
 
 
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Menumorut View Drop Down
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Posts: 1423 		  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2008 at 06:31
Originally posted by Reginmund

Someone should ban this mongrel. Evil%20Smile



I tried to understand what is with this hostility against me from some members and today I think I found. I think you make a connection between my veganism and supposed (actually, imaginary) racism and the ones of Hitler.

This is paranoia. I don't know why hitler was vegan, I'm because I found savour in ascetism (I spend more than an year in monastery) and later I found being a vegan very pleasantful, you become very healthy and energetic and ofcourse you feel superior to others which make you self-confident and strong in a measure.

As for my "racism", I admit that I don't like to see my people becoming outnumbered by other nations in the land of their ancestors, I think nobody like this.

There have been some posts of mine that created the false impression that I'm racist. It was the thread that I created about a country of Roma people. My idea was that as the Jewish people got a homeland after centuries of being foreigners everywhere and that made them feel good, the same would happen with Roma people. Other post was one in which I said that the Third Reich has had some good achievements (and I mentioned the Germanization of economy and the rise of national conscience). I think I was wrong with that message.


As for what I said in this topic, I really believe that and is not something racist, just read it again.

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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2008 at 07:44
The mongrel comment was a joke directed at pinguin.

I have no issue with you loving your people. It's only natural, like loving one's family. 
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