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Finding a patron saint to AE
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Cryptic View Drop Down
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Finding a patron saint to AE
    Posted: 25-Sep-2008 at 19:04
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

  • Safeguards? Like the parts of the old testament which advocate genocide? Do you have any idea what happened in the Middle Ages when religion reigned supreme? Ever heard of the Crusades? Inquisition?

    • There is a huge ddiference in magnitude between Pol Pots "Year Zero and the Cultural revolution and the crusades and inquisition.

    Unlike the Marxists, the goal of the crusaders was never to completely destroy a society or a culture. Rather it was to restore Christianity as the areas domiante religion.  Of course the crusaders killed Muslim and Jewish civilians. They stopped far short, however, of destroying the entire Islamic society. Muslims, Jews and their institutions continued to exist following the Crusader occupation.
     
    The inquisition.... The total fatalities of the inquisition were about 20,000 people over the period of 100 years.  Pol Pot and Chairman Mao exceeded this during one bad month.

    Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

    Actually you can find it in a variety of Churches, temples and mosques (Bahai belief).
     So your truth cannot be found in Muslim mosques? Interesting. [

    Yes it can. I mentioned Mosques.  The  Bahai belief is a reference to their teachings that religions are different manifestations of the same truth (temple, mosque, church) 

    Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

    That's bullshit. This is what he said in 1941:
    'I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.'

    Good Knowledge.  But is still does not change the core fact that neither Hitler nor his ideology were religous in nature.  Hitler was  a nomina / cultural Catholic in much the same way that Saddam Hussein was a nominal / cultural Sunni Muslim.  Both were secular tyrants. Their cultural religous background does not change this.   



    Edited by Cryptic - 25-Sep-2008 at 19:17
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    Maharbbal View Drop Down
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    Posts: 2120     		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2008 at 02:05
    @ glce & Seko

    thx for the support, may St Catherine bless you and make your path one full of flowers (unless you have medical issues with polen).

    @ bey

    I'm waaaaaaaaaaay to drunk to take offense and/or to beginning trying to understand what it is you've written. Anyway send me a PM if you want to come to Paris this year you're welcome (along with every AE member). Just remember when you called me an islamophobic the next time you call the pope a fascist.
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    Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
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    Posts: 1355     		  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2008 at 13:08
    I'm waaaaaaaaaaay to drunk to take offense and/or to beginning trying to understand what it is you've written.
     
    It is a joke. Google it.
     
    Cryptic,
     
    I already responded to you but it failed to register. I won't waste my time.
     
    Seko,
     
    I have no complaints about anyone mod or not, I just cleared some point for Janusrook. 
     
     
     
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    Posts: 818     		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2008 at 21:33

    I've always been a bit biased in favor of St. Patrick for the obvious reasons. Wink
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    Leonidas View Drop Down
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    Posts: 4613     		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 07:53
    Originally posted by Cryptic


    Actually you can find it in a variety of Churches, temples and mosques (Bahai belief).
    Religious truth reflects the best of who we are as humans and is the foundation of any society.  Religous truth endures because it is what makes us human.
    truth doesn't exist in any one place, except in someones weak mind that needs to hold onto something so certain. The lie is that you can find it in a faith. Faith and truth should be separated, there is what you know and what you believe. I know i cant fly, i dont know but belive i will go to heavan, no preist or church can change that.

    religion is for emotional well being and nothing more profound than that. The only thing human about relgion is the fact we seem to need it. But you may be right about the human nature of relgoius truth, its simply a mirror of ourselves and our own perceptions.
     
    Originally posted by Cryptic

    The artificial systems such as  Marxism or modern secularism fail.   Religous systems have evolved over thousands of years and thus have a far better understanding of human beings than Karl Marx or Nietszche.  
    there is nothing less articifal about any religious system. everything we do is equal on that level. I don't undertsand how you seperate religion out from humans, its about humans for humans and has never moved beyond or lifted above the context of humans. Communism is no different, neither has slayed our bad side and in every other respect will be brought down or fought over by it. Never ever has any organisation, religoius or not been A-political, and therefore should be judged as a political beast in some shape or form.
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    Cryptic View Drop Down
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    Posts: 1962     		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 15:34
    Originally posted by Leonidas

      there is nothing less articifal about any religious system. (refering to communism)
    Even from an agnsotic point of view, there is a huge difference.  Religous systems evolved slowly over thousands of years and thus developed some very profound insights into human nature. Communism, in contrast, attempted to create a "religion" while eliminating this evolutionary process. The result was a "religion" based on very artificial precepts and  very limited insights of human nature.
     
     
    Originally posted by Leonidas

     
    religion is for emotional well being and nothing more profound than that.
    Religion is far more profund that and contains deep insights into psychology, sociology, justice, fairness, social responsibilities, morality etc.  All these contribute to stable societies.
     
    Originally posted by Leonidas

      truth doesn't exist in any one place, except in someones weak mind that needs to hold onto something so certain. The lie is that you can find it in a faith. Faith and truth should be separated
    The truth that I am talikg about is not Galleleo proved "X" and the Catholic church rejected it.  Rather, the truth that religous systems offer is  system of social stability.  
     


    Edited by Cryptic - 27-Sep-2008 at 16:26
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    arch.buff View Drop Down
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    Posts: 606     		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2008 at 01:08
    Originally posted by Akolouthos

    Originally posted by JanusRook

    Well, I think we should stick with the Church before the Great Schism. John Paul II, even if he is eventually canonized, will only be considered a saint by the Catholic Church.


    Akolouthos, I'm surprised that you would allow such a minor issue to be brought up. After all we can pray for assistance by whomever we want (in fact that's how new saints are discovered) all that Sainthood is is a confirmation by the Church authority whether it is permissible to venerate that person or not. And it is my understanding that anything not forbidden by the church is permissible until the authority has decreed on it. Therefore I do not think it improper to disallow saints that came after the schism (on either end, be free to advocate an orthodox saint after 800, 1054 or 1204, or whenever you believe the schism actually occured.) I mean they are still considered a "saint" by a church authority.

    Also even though it wouldn't be improper to have a secular patron for All Empires, that isn't the idea behind the thread of AE having a patron saint.

    After all AE can have both as well as a Hindu deity, a Boddhisatva and a Voodoo spirit associated with it. This thread is for which saints should represent AE but does not exclude other patrons.
     
    Guys, for all I care you could name a one-legged chicken the patron saint of AE. I was simply pointing out that it would be silly to use a word that is not entirely applicable, the which you cannot dispute. As for a secular patron, I have no problem with that, having suggested it; I was just hoping, perhaps vainly, for consistency. My point was that John Paul II a) is not a recognized as a saint by any denomination, and b) is from a period wherein there are thousands of denominations that would not recognize him even if the Roman Catholic Church did. Do what you will; I have no desire to be drawn into a serious discussion about something that is supposed to be a bit of fun.
     
    -Akolouthos
     
    I completely agree with your logic, but disagree with your contradictory application thereof. While Photius is considered a saint in the Orthodox churches, he is not in the Catholic church. Although it should be noted you may find arguement here from some Eastern Catholic churches; which would be the topic of an entirely new thread. Dvornik has shed some much needed light on Photius for the West that Hergenrother may have missed; it should also be noted he died in communion with Rome. It would be far better a situation to propose a saint that is acknowledged by most; which leads me to my proposal: St. Michael the Archangel. He's recognized by Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, and Musilm. He's the patron saint of Police officers I believe. Im guessing Moderators should feel some sort of connection.LOLWink    
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