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North American Empires

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: North American Empires
    Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 01:28

I was wondering,  were there any North American empires that got anywhere near the level of the Aztecs or Inca?

I have been looking over the subject a little,  I can't really find anything,  if there weren't actual empires why didn't it happen?

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 01:45

well there were no empires per se but there were culture groups and societies nonetheless.  Although I cannot point out any architeture or monuments on the scale of Mesoamerica I can point out what I view as the greatest political organization before the USA, which would be the Iroquois confederaction. 

Although its origins are shrouded in mystery and legend, it probably came together in upper New York /St Lawrence area in the 1300's.  Hiawatha was the founder and was influenced by a shaman who told him to stop making war on his neighbors.  The resulting peace deals created this "league of nations: if you will between the Mohawk, Onondaga, Seneca, Tuscororas, and Oneidas was basically much like the early US in its state (or tribe) controlled domestic power and united foreign policy. 

The Iroquois (a french name given to them because they were resolute enemies of the hated frogmen meaning rattlesankes) called themselves people of the long house or Hodenosaunee.  They were easily th emost powerful and influential community in North America by the time of European arrival.  They are most well known to us as allies of the English against the French (who had armed their rival hurons) and then against us.  With the US vicotry and peace in 1783 much of their power was taken away but nonethless they got a reservation they still have in New York and were part of formal peace negotiations.  They were known to send ambassadors to the ENglish monarch and conducted deals with Europeans effectively.  They adopted European weapons full scale.

Hodenosaunee society was matriarchal, with women running most affairs other than war.  Both genders had equal rights and one notable feature was that captured enemies or defeated tribes were often peacefully incororated and given full rights.

Other North American notables are the Pueblo dwellers of New Mexico and their adobe architechture, and the mound building river people who perhaps became the Cherokee who had a large agricultural civilization on the Mississippi and throughout modern Georgia and Carolinas.

OK there may be discrepancies because that was all off the top of my head int eh middle of the night.  Heres a link:

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/

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  Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 08:32
There is the Anasazi and the Mound Builders both of whom left tangible monuments.
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 09:41

 

  Im not familiar with the cultures stablished on what we call AridoAmerica, the Great Plains, Florida Peninsula or the canadian cultures.

 

  But, before the Aztecs existed cultures culturally and socially developed.

 

     Olmecs ( Gulf of Mexico ), Mayans ( Yucatan Peninsula and Central America ), Teotihuacan ( Central Mexico ), Toltecs ( Central Mexico ), Zapotecs and Mixtecs ( Southern Pacific of Mexico ) and the Purepechas that were never defeated by the Aztecs in western mexico ( Michoacan state ).

   Heres a chronology chart:

 

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 10:34
Thanks for the information!
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  Quote Ptolemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 14:43
I'd have to say the Iroquois. They were surrounded by enemies such as the Algonquin and Heron, and still managed to survive. They had a more advanced government system than their neighbours and were very important to their British allies.

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 15:03
Toltecs.
Grrr..
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 11:27
Toltecs weren't really North America (if we consider Mexico not North America). Toltec influence (Ritual ball game fields) has been found in territories that are part of the USA nowadays, but the Toltecs most probably didn't conquer that area.
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 11:32

 

source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toltecs

The Toltecs (or Toltec or Tolteca) were an Pre-Columbian Native American people who dominated much of central Mexico between the 10th and 12th century AD. Their language - Nahuatl - was also spoken by the Aztecs.

They originated as a militaristic nomadic people, and they or their ancestors may have sacked the city of Teotihuacan (ca. 750). After they established a more settled existence, the Toltec fused the many small states in Central Mexico into an empire ruled from their capital, Tula (also known as Toln). They were accomplished temple builders. Their influence spread through much of Mesoamerica in the post-Classic era. The Toltec influence on the Maya of Yucatn is heavy, especially evident at the city of Chichen Itza. Their pottery has been found as far south as Costa Rica.

Some writers have alleged that the Toltecs introduced the cult of Quetzalcoatl, the plumed serpent. This is certainly not so, as this was deity was commonly depicted throughout Mesoamerica for centuries earlier, going back to Olmec times. In Toltec (and later Aztec mythology) Quetzalcoatl was a rival of Tezcatlipoca, the first god who is known to have demanded human hearts as sacrifice. Thus the Toltecs seem to have introduced the habit of mass human sacrifice as later practiced by the Aztecs.

The Toltec empire is believed to have been destroyed around 1200 AD by the nomadic warriors of the Chichimecs. The ruling family of the Aztecs claimed to descend from Toltec ancestry via the sacred city of Colhuacn.

In his writings Miguel Len Portilla explains that in Nauha legend, the Toltec were the originators of all civilization, so Toltec was synonymous with artist, or artisan, and their city "Tollan" was described as full of wonders. When the Aztecs rewrote their history, they tried to show they were related to the Toltecs. Unfortunatelly this means that much of the tradition of the Toltecs is legend, and dificult to prove. Stories say that after the fall of Tula some of the Toltec retreated to Cholula, which did not fall until centuries later when it was burned by Hernn Corts and the Spanish conquistadores.

Most Toltec history is known from writings of later peoples, such as the Aztec, written centuries later after a "dark age" in Central Mexico, together with some references by the Maya. Toltec rulers are said to have included:

In 1941, the Sociedad Mexicana de Antropologa confirmed that Tula was the capital of the Toltec, as had long been tradition and suggested by archeologists since the 19th century. Some scholars, including Laurette Sjourn, regret the decision, claiming that several season of excavation only revealed a minor city, not enough to justify the legend of the Toltecs. The site of Tula actually shows it to have been a large city in its prime, although the ceremonial art and architecture visible there today is less impressive than that at other Mesoamerican sites. It should be understood, however, that some chronicles from the time of the arrival of the Spanish conquistadores and later confuse the Toltec with other earlier Mesoamerican civilizations and sometimes tend to attribute all achievements of the centuries before the rise of the Aztec to the Toltec. During the late twentieth century, some Mexican shamans, including Don Miguel Ruiz, who claim to be descendants of the Toltec and inheritors of their spiritual powers, began writing and teaching for a worldwide audience, causing a renewed interest in the Toltec. For the concept Toltec in the writings of Carlos Castaneda, see: Toltec (Castaneda)

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 17:43
Didn't the aztec legend tell that aztecs came from north?
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 18:39

 

  The Aztecs did not came from the north, but from the state of Nayarit on the Pacific coast. Nayarit is called the cradle of the mexicanitity.

 

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