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Knight vs. Samurai

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Count Belisarius View Drop Down
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Knight vs. Samurai
    Posted: 28-Aug-2008 at 16:00
Sorry the link didn't turn out right, here it is:
 


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  Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2008 at 03:51
I  wrestle in highschool and do jujitsu so i think i have more knowledge of practical uses of both. Pressure points during life and death combat is the stupidest thing i heard,ok try pinching that point in your enemys neck(while they are wearing some kind of armor)while he is bashing your face with metal gauntlets or even head butting you.It wouldnt work then it doesnt work now that whole pressure point crap is ridiculous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI check  out "master" of dim mak

Wrestling can be used to some degree trips and take downs are possible but i am sorry unless your alexander karelin you wont be doing any crazy throws to a armored opponent because of extra weight or awkward grips.

As for other things it realy comes down to dirty tactics in a struggle things like eye gauging,groin strikes and maybe even biting.

I would say the knight would win.


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2008 at 04:23
Exactly that's why knight's emphasized grappling and wrestling over pugilism and I take kenpo and we do some jujitsu and I agree. By the way armor isn't as heavy as it is made out to be check out the A.R.M.A website link.


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  Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2008 at 05:41
I wouldnt say armor is super heavy but i do think it adds a considerable amount of weight to someone when lifting them is involved for throws or take downs.I think wrestling is underrated people think it is just about shoving people around but when used in fighting correctly its for dominance and postioning. Will i disable a opponent taking them down?not likely unless they land horribly during the takedown but will i disable them when i am in a dominant postion raining punchs down thats a yes.


Edited by Husaria - 29-Aug-2008 at 05:43
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2008 at 21:01
It is kinda hard to punch someone when their wearing armor, however that was pretty much the general idea, thrust for the gap's and the joint's and get them on the ground and stab through the eyeslit of the helm if you fighting armed and armored if not, then you simply have more and new ways' to kill your opponentSmile.....of course he also has new way's to kill you too. By the way have you checked out the arma website?Smile   

Edited by Count Belisarius - 03-Sep-2008 at 17:28


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 17:30
Her's another thing to keep in mind the samurai didn't have sheild's of course late knight's didn't have them either because the were wearing it 


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:05
Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

Thats a common mistake, a knight would usually have enough money to eat meat, kings deer and all that, and you see tapestrys of knights hunting all the time, also the armor in mueseums is usually decorational and made in three quarter scale to show off the "artwork" (for lack of a better phrase) and the craftsmanship, actual combat armor was made for men who were just under six feet or six five     


Nope. People were actually shorter in the past due to bad diets. I have seen uniforms of people who have fought in wars in the last 300 years in the U.S., and they are these little uniforms that don't look real to us. Even soldiers in WWII were a lot smaller than people in the U.S. today.

That said, I go with knights because in another version of this discussion, someone made the arguments that the weapons of the knights were better than those of the Samurai, and that they had a greater range of fighting technique, which made up for the speed of the Japanese warrior.
 
 
Thsoe are uniforms from world war two right after the great depression not the middle ages


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:08
Originally posted by deadkenny

The terms are too generic to get into specifics.  'Knights' were around for centuries and equipment varied considerably.  Also, what is the mode of combat?  On foot?  Samurai also trained with the bow, whereas your 'typical' knight did not.  In terms of melee combat, the Samurai would probably have a better quality sword, and be faster.  The knight would have better armour.  One on one, these situations often end up being a 'rock, paper, scissors' sort of situation, depending heavily on the specifics. 
 
Actually only early samurai used bows, and late knights used small powerful metal crossbows and guns


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:10
Originally posted by deadkenny

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin


Although I can't remember the source offhand, I recall reading that this is a common misconception; western swords were not inferior to oriental swords. 

Plate armour was also pretty much invulnerable to swords, too, so a late middle-ages knight would be a nightmare for a samurai.
 
I would appreciate a source though - it depends on exactly what is being referred to.  I was not referencing 'oriental' swords in general, but rather a sword that a samurai was likely to be armed with. 
 
True, by late 'middle-ages' the knight might have full articulated plate armour.  However, that comes back to what I mentioned about the terms being 'generic'.  For centuries a knight would have been using chainmail with a separate helm that would have left the neck vulnerable - not a good characteristic against a samurai!
 
Actually a lot of ealry knights would have had a coif or an aventail


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:15
Originally posted by Władysław Warnencz

In a hand-to-hand combat on foot the samurai would beat,beacuse he is faster,more agile and wealds lighter but sharper sword.In a cavalry charge however the samurai would be defeated utterly by the heavily armoured knights,with big,strong armoured horses and long lances.
 
Early samurai used large metal plates to protect them from arrows and their form pretty much all eras would have silk cords, and if those cords got wet they became very heavy. A katana won't get through plate armor and early samurai didn't use katana's despite the fact they've been around since the the seventh century and katana's edge is so fine that they chip easily


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:21
Originally posted by Roberts

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

No thats how tall the romans required their soldiers to be, and he got that from actual roman military documents  

As I said thats horrible mistake. Probably he messed up Roman measurements. Or maybe you translated them into modern imperial system where one foot is probably not the same as one Roman era foot.
 
Thsoe are real roman inches dude trust my mom froced me to read this really intersting book on the history and world of mathematics


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:33


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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 17:35
By the way some people have been claiming that medieval armor and weapons were slow and clumsy and ahevy and were made for bashing thats completely wrong


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