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Topic: Doolittle Raid equivalents in history Posted: 23-May-2007 at 07:03 |
The Doolittle raid did very little material damage to the Japanese.
Its aim was more about boosting home morale.
It could also be argued that one of its unintended consequences was in a change in Japanese strategy, to seek out Americas carriers and that resulted in the Battle of Midway and a greater US victory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid
So I was wondering, what other military operation in history had little or no direct military value but had either unplanned benefits or were solely morale boosters?
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aghart
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 18:01 |
the Chindit operations in Burma are a classic example. In purely military terms they were a total waste of time. But they did help defeat the idea that the jap was invincible in the Jungle. They also convinced the Americans that the British were serious about being offensive against Japan.
Edited by aghart - 01-Jun-2007 at 17:34
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aghart
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Posted: 23-May-2007 at 18:09 |
RAF Mosquito Squadron strikes into German controlled area's such as Norway & Denmark.
When considered against the ultimate fall of Nazi Germany they had 0% effect on the outcome of the war. But the effect on the morale of the people in these area's was totally outstanding. To be totally controlled by an enemy was awful but to have RAF aircraft fly overhead gave these oppressed people the one weapon that would stay with them forever, Hope!!
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Paul
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Posted: 24-May-2007 at 04:50 |
It was largely a the same as the British bombing of Berlin in August 1940. Of no military use, but a huge properganda tool for back home. In the face of a huge defeat a small overblown victory to offer the public.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 30-May-2007 at 22:02 |
The Entebbe raid may fit into this category. Not only was the raid an incredible success, but it also helped create the myth of Israeli invincibility and that Israel could reach anywhere with lethal effeciency.
Once created, this myth lasted until the post occupation experience iSouth Lebanon and with the Infatilda during the 1990s. Like all myths, the Israeli invincibility myth was based on fact. The Israeli military was (and still is, to a degree) and a very lethal fighting force. They are not, hoewver, invicible.
Edited by Cryptic - 30-May-2007 at 22:06
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Posted: 31-May-2007 at 02:17 |
Entebbe was a commando raid!
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Cezar
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Posted: 31-May-2007 at 17:43 |
Halpro and maybe Tidal Wave. Both against Ploiesti in WWII. The first was a surprise though it didn't do real damage. The second was a disaster (in short term) for the USAAF. The damage was minimal. Yet, since there was a threat, Hitler and Antonescu brought more fighters in Romania to protect Ploiesti. Therefore there were less to fight the Soviets. And, in 1944, when the USAAF (not the Mighty Eight it was the XV'th) really came, we really got into trouble. Though the americans didn't found it easy... but that's another story.
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Liang Jieming
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Posted: 31-May-2007 at 23:17 |
Huo Qubing's raid on the Xiongnu capital deep in the steppes ca. 1st century B.C.
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aghart
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Posted: 01-Jun-2007 at 17:37 |
Originally posted by Cryptic
The Entebbe raid may fit into this category. Not only was the raid an incredible success, but it also helped create the myth of Israeli invincibility and that Israel could reach anywhere with lethal effeciency.
Once created, this myth lasted until the post occupation experience iSouth Lebanon and with the Infatilda during the 1990s. Like all myths, the Israeli invincibility myth was based on fact. The Israeli military was (and still is, to a degree) and a very lethal fighting force. They are not, hoewver, invicible. |
The Entebbe raid was an outstanding success but should not be included in this thread because it "actually met" it's intended military aims and objectives.
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Jonathan4290
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Posted: 19-Mar-2008 at 02:42 |
I would also say what is now known as Black Hawk Down where 17 US rangers were killed at a cost of thousands of Somalians. The American casualties had little effect on their military situation but were forced to abandon their mission after the public was horrified to see dead Americans being dragged around in Somalian streets.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 19-Mar-2008 at 05:50 |
The Syrian campaign just after the death of the prophet Muhammad. Just before he died, the prophet sent an army against the Ghassanid in Jordan under the command of Osamah ibn Zaid, when he died the army stopped near Madina as all Arabia except the three cities, Makkah, Madinah and Taif. All the tribes around Madinah, Ghatafan, Abs etc were gathering to sack Madinah some of these tribes had over 5000 men under Arms, disregarding the unanimous call from the Sahabah to buy time, bribe the tribes and gather enough men including the army of Osamah,which had most of the war horses and was completely armed and had the best men in it, so it spearheads the effort of regaining authority on all Arabia, Abu Bakr sent it to Jordan and ordered it to take down any tribes that tries to undermine it. When Ghatafan heard of this news and the victories this army had against other tribes and ultimately against the Ghassanis near Balqa, they voluntarily broke their rebellion and effectively participated in the apostate wars where they lost most of their men. Leaders of Ghatafan said after that if that army did not go they would have definitely sacked Madinah because they said we never heard of a besieged City that has spare troops, as they thought, to send into a far away land because of a trivial incident so the were quickly to swear allegiance to Islam after small skirmishes.
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deadkenny
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Posted: 19-Mar-2008 at 14:24 |
The Tet Offensive, launched by the Vietnamese communist forces (northern regulars and southern Viet Cong) was, in strictly military terms, a disaster for the communists. However, the impact in the US politically was huge, and undermined support for the war and the credibility of the administration. This all led eventually to a US pull out which led directly to the collapse of the south in 1975.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 19-Mar-2008 at 14:39 |
Originally posted by Jonathan4290
I would also say what is now known as Black Hawk Down where 17 US rangers were killed at a cost of thousands of Somalians. The American casualties had little effect on their military situation but were forced to abandon their mission after the public was horrified to see dead Americans being dragged around in Somalian streets. |
The mission was abandoned due to the incompetence of the C-in-C, Mr. Clinton. One of his several FUBARs. Let's not look at this as a Doolittle, but as a DoNothing. It had the opposite effect of Doolittle's raid.
Soldiers take the risks of war, regardless of the theater in which they are assumed. Iranians did the same to dead Americans after Mr. Carter's 1980 FUBAR. He was another incompetent as C-in-C. But at least Carter had good intentions and did something that took courage.
Clinton is a gutless wimp whose policies vacillated daily based on what the polls looked like in the media. Just like his wife will be.
Digression? Well....yeah.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 19-Mar-2008 at 14:54 |
Back in time, in the early stages of the French and Indian War, when the frontier in Pennsylvania was under pressure by France's Indian allies, the rather brand new Pennsylvania Militia mounted a raid deep in Indian country in western PA. Lt. Col. John Armstrong led several hundred militia to Kittanning north of the forks of the Ohio River headwaters, and burned the Delaware Indian settlement at Kittanning.
Modern revisionists pooh-pooh it, of course (that is what revisionists do), but the message was sent that the Indians were not unreachable, and not immune from attacks similar to what was being done against frontier settlements. This was done about a year after Braddock's defeat near Ft. Duquesne in 1755. It was also a portent that payback was going to be a bitch.
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 19-Mar-2008 at 15:04
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Jonathan4290
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Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 03:29 |
Originally posted by pikeshot1600
Originally posted by Jonathan4290
I would also say what is now known as Black Hawk Down where 17 US rangers were killed at a cost of thousands of Somalians. The American casualties had little effect on their military situation but were forced to abandon their mission after the public was horrified to see dead Americans being dragged around in Somalian streets. |
The mission was abandoned due to the incompetence of the C-in-C, Mr. Clinton. One of his several FUBARs. Let's not look at this as a Doolittle, but as a DoNothing. It had the opposite effect of Doolittle's raid.
Soldiers take the risks of war, regardless of the theater in which they are assumed. Iranians did the same to dead Americans after Mr. Carter's 1980 FUBAR. He was another incompetent as C-in-C. But at least Carter had good intentions and did something that took courage.
Clinton is a gutless wimp whose policies vacillated daily based on what the polls looked like in the media. Just like his wife will be.
Digression? Well....yeah. |
Definitely digression but that's okay
The Black Hawk Down incident is not a typical Doolittle Raid and although I have little knowledge over their abilities as C-in-Cs, the effect the images had on the public can't be underestimated.
The Somalians were brilliant in their execution: they escorted Western journalists to the scene of the battle and seemed to know the exact time they had to be there for their reports to make the evening news cycle. It is these images that prevented Clinton from intervening in the Rwandan Genocide despite knowing exactly what was going on.
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Temujin
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Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 19:21 |
Soviets also did an air raid on Berlin after Barbarossa, i even heard the Poles did one.
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