Greatest king of the Dark Age

Originally posted by Reginmund Originally posted by es_bih They had already lost before Kosovo, which played a more symbolic role than anything.   Please explain this. I'm not an expert on the Balkans in this period by any means, but every source I've read on it (books on the Crusades, Byzantium and Wikipedia articles on the Ottoman wars) emphasise the importance of the battle of Kosovo, as just two years previous the Ottomans had suffered a reverse at the hands of the Serbians in the battle of Plocnik, and with the victory at Kosovo they were finally able to weaken the Serbian position.   When you say the Serbians had already lost, are you thinking of the dissolvment of the Serbian "empire" and the defeat of the Serbian army at Maritsa in 1371? Even if these were serious reverses for the Serbians, I get the impression the Ottomans weren't able to reduce the Serbians to vassalage until after Kosovo, and even with the victory at Kosovo the Serbians remained in partial control of the city.

The Serbian Empire was created in 1345, but it was not extinguished at the Martisa 1371 battle. It took months after the battle for its last Tsar "Uros the Weak" to die of poor health. However fictional, the Serbian empire did continue to exist as some sort of an entity even beyond the battle. There are several reasons for it. One is that Marko Mrnjavcevic ("Kraljevic") became an Ottoman vassal, with most of Macedonia vassalaged - but the north remained free. In 1377 a new claimholder emerged in the form of the Bosnian Ban Tvrtko I Kotromanic.

The "spirit" of the Serbian Empire continued to exist in a manner similar to modern-day feelings of patriotism or even perhaps nationalism. Despite having even no ruler (!), all the noblemen collectively referred to the Serbian Empire, and forged a family alliance headed by Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic of Moravian Serbia. There was also there Djuradj II Stracimirovic Balsic of Zeta and Vuk Brankovic of Kosovo amongst the more notable ones - but later the Ban of Macva was there too, and even (although only on paper) Bulgaria. This family alliance, which probably in its basis had the Serbian Orthodox Church that promoted Orthodox Lazar rather that Catholic Tvrtko, crumbled after the 1389 Battle of Amsfeld, leaving only Zeta hanging alone outside Ottoman control. I am full aware of three claimholders, who practically represented separate worlds: Tvrtko as a historical/legal one, Lazar with the basis of the Church and Marko Ottoman vassal representing Ottoman claims to the Serbian lands.

So the Serbian Empire existed from 1345 to not 1371, but rather 1389, at which the loose fabric of the Empire was martially and politically destroyed.

Originally posted by es_bih As Lazar had been Prince, and Plocnik if I am correct had been under control of Tvrtko I

Not quite. Plocnik was in Moravian Serbia. It was far to the east of Bosnia

Here's the map of Plocnik's presence:

http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0:Emptz_Map_of_Serbia.PNG

The commander of the battle was Prince Lazar.

Just like at Kosovo that is why the documents surrounding it such as Tvrtko writing to the Church about "his" victory at Kosovo.