Ottoman perceptions of the Americas

The regions of direct control, effective control and areas of influence of course widely vary.

Originally posted by Muha Zhengh HE and admiral of fleet was in comand of 183 of those ships and he was a muslim and he would aid ottomans in exchange for technology, its like today giving some tanks and get back a nuke a good deal as we could say

First of all, the Chinese were the most technologically advanced nation of the time, what would they need the Ottomans for? Secondly, your assumption that "Zheng He was Muslim, the Ottomans were Muslim, so they'll help each other out" is ridiculous. Its more likely they would have fought each other after Zheng He demanded that the Ottoman sultan praise the Chinese Emperor, which was a huge part of his mission (his task was to intimidate and awe different kingdoms and empires into becoming Chinese client kingdoms, and later to show them the might of the Chinese Empire, Zheng He had an army of 28,000 men with him).

Originally posted by Muha the indian ocean wasnt dominated by europeans as you say, man we are talking 1400;s the armor and sword is still the main weapons, and they arent gonna sail all the way from spain in caravel to reach indonesia, as there is better trade route on the west now, and a lot closer.

What? Also, forget the Europeans, there were countless kingdoms that the Ottomans would have to deal with on their way to the America's through the Indian and Pacific Oceans, including pirates.

Originally posted by Muha also ottomans would on the way probably discover australia and establish a supply collony, similar to what dutch did on cape of good hope, it proved a great bussines and a trade post as the treasures from new world are being moved to istanbul

Do you know where Australia is? How would the Ottomans discover Australia on their way to the America's? A trip to Australia, then to the America's would make their journey even farther. Australia would also be a hard place to colonize.

Your assumptions are simply devoid of geographical and historical realities.

TGS wrote, a while ago;

"Colonialism was simply impossible for the Ottomans. As you mentioned, sailing through the Mediterranean was out of the question, but attempting a colonization effort of the America's from the Persian Gulf is simply absurd."

I would respectfully argue that it was or would indeed, have been possible!

Have you every sailed thru the gap between the Med. and the Atlantic? It is not a "narrow" gap, as we see on maps today!

To get a fleet out of the Med. into the Atlantic, is not really as diffucult as you might think, especially before "radar!"

Heck, Amercian ships were, like those of every nation, often attacked and taken by Pirates base upon the African coast, even into the 19th century CE!

But, large fleets were not attacked, just small single or maybe three ships were targeted by these pirates at one time, and this was when all of the navies of England, France, Spain, etc., were trying to avoid just such an occurance!


But, "free-booters", were then as now, easy to man and act! It was these pirate bands that chose and picked the targets of opportunity!

Look, the English would try to attack the French or Spanish, the French or Spanish would retort, and the Dutch (maybe the origin of the Barbary Pirates), all of them!

So, considering the original of the posts on this particular site, are supposed to be following the "original" rules, then one might well consider that the Ottomans, which once were considered as the rulers of the Med. area, and an Empire which then actually had bases of support on the African coast, at least, would have been in an excellent position to go forward into the Atlantic, and place large bases upon the N.African / Atlantic coast! Now, if we can suppose that their still ramained on the Spanish coast a cadre' of pro-Islam supporters, then they would have been able to assist in the movement of man-power and ships out of the Med. into the Atlantic.

But, first, we should try to still recognize that "Salt" was still a major commodity during these times! And, of course, along with Salt was Seafood! And, believe it or not, seafood, and especially "salted sea-food" was still a commodity very much in demand during the times of the 12th-18th centuries CE! The very period which saw the real development of the Ottoman Empire!

But, I am writing way too much, and most of you, it seems, are only devoted to retorts of one or three paragraphs! Aaaaagggg!

Still, concerning America, I feel that the Ottomans, the leadership of wich was much more "democratic" than the "religious" leaders, who/whom it seems to me, were somewhat a "quiet background" to the real powers, which seems able to ignore religious problems, whenever the need arose!

Thus, if as the early posts here propose, this Empire ever desired the propagation of it'self to the Americas would have had a good chance of success, since so little of it was really under the control of any other European nobility, etc.! And, by marriage,etc., the Ottmans had just as good a claim to these lands as any of their cousins! Especially since they did not have to bow to Rome in any manner!

Enter the Native American, being exposed to Ottomans!

I don't know just how many paintings or depictions any of you have seen of the head-wear or head-dresses worn by Ottoman officials, but they were to some extent, at least later in time, very similar to those worn by out same depictions of Native American head wear! That is, plumes of feathers, etc.!

All Ottoman leaders, it seems, from the time of the Crusader conquest of Constantinople, were either not yet Islamized or they were realists!

That is it seems they were, like so many others in those days, easily bought as Mercenaries! They were, it seems, easily worked into Christian armies as needed!

Now, to consider any Ottoman moves towards the New World, and considering the original restrictions posted here, then a Ottoman conquest and founding of an Ottoman/Othman outpost in the New World, is not an impossibilty, considering that at one time the Ottoman navy ruled the Med.!

And, if the Ottoman dignataries wore those same feather headresses, then they might well have found that the locals, (who we are told also wore such devices) might have found them at arms length with fellows?

And, since only a few of the older respondants on this site, actually mentioned the ability of the Ottomans and other Islamic tribes, to become involved in the "slave trade" then the availibility of hundreds of thousands of potential slaves, in the New World, might have been an impossible opportunity to resist?

But, I will desist from posting more!

Regards,