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conquer world air power
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: conquer world air power
    Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 05:04
well like i said, you should need less of them in the first place (if all goes to plan)
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Desimir View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 21:08
Why you forget that russian answer of F-22 is still coming.It is true that Su-37 is more maneouvarable and faster than f-22,but it is just a base for next generation russian figthers.And this fighters are Mig 1.42 MFI and SU-47(S-37) Berkut.
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Laelius View Drop Down
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Posts: 354 		  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 11:39
Why you forget that russian answer of F-22 is still coming.It is true that Su-37 is more maneouvarable and faster than f-22,but it is just a base for next generation russian figthers.
 
In all out speed the F-22 is 50 mph faster than the Su-37 and for practical purposes there is no comparison as the F-22 has the ability to supercruise.  As for maneuverability I'd put my money on the F-22, why?  Simple the F-22 has thrust vectors like the Su-37 and has an additional 10,000 pounds of thrust.  Sure the Su-37 might have an edge in circus acrobatics but in terms of practical combat manuevers...
 

Its still way to early to give any report card on the Fa 22 as it hasnt been through much yet. It looks good on paper but the pilot usually makes the difference.

 

From what can be deduced thus far it appears that the F-22 has already proven to be an exceptionally reliable aircraft.   Apparently requiring half the maintenance of fighters such as the F-15 and F-16.

 

Oh and check out this evaluation by Dera formerly the British Defense Evaluation and Research Agency.

Aircraft Odds vs.
Su-35
Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor 10.1:1
Eurofighter Typhoon 4.5:1
Sukhoi Su-35 'Flanker' 1.0:1
Dassault Rafale C 1.0:1
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle 0.8:1
Boeing F/A-18+ 0.4:1
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C 0.3:1
General Dynamics F-16C 0.3:1
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Desimir View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:13
You overestimate F-22.It just cant compare with Su-37 when it comes to speed and maveuverability.
You americans cannot understand that russian propulsion technologies are years ahead compared with US.You even steal russian and european technologies.
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Laelius View Drop Down
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Posts: 354 		  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:39
 

F-22 Performance

Note: this is taken from the USAF F-22 Raptor team website.


 


Specifications
Country of Origin Russia
Builder Sukhoi
Role Multi-role fighter
Similar Aircraft
Wing Span 15.16 m / 49 ft 9 in
Length 21.94 m / 72 ft
Height 6.84 m / 22 ft 5 in
Weight 40,565 lb empty / 74,956 lb max. take off
Engine Two Lyulka AL-37FU vectored-thrust afterburning turbofans, 30,855 lb thrust each
Maximum speed 2,440 km/h / 1,516 mph
Cruising speed
Range 3,500 km / 2,175 miles
Service Ceiling 59,000 ft
Armament One GSh-30-1 30mm cannon, plus up to 18,075 lb including R-73/R-77 AAMs, ASMs, bombs, rockets, drop tanks, and ECM pods carried on fourteen external points
Crew 1
Cost
User Countries under development for Russia

Pardon me Desimir it appears that the Raptor is 86 mph faster and tell me how could the Su-37 make up for its lack of supercruise capability?  As to your absurd statements about engine technology please enlighten me I suppose its superior Russian engineering which explains why the Su-37 has 10,000 lbs less thrust than the F-22 and the proposed Su-47 would have 6k less engine thrust despite being 12,000 lbs heavier than the F-22.  unless you can provide source material it looks to me like the  Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 are continuing the Cold War trend of superior Western technology.

 

You even steal russian and european technologies.

Absurd and baseless.
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Desimir View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 13:16
F-35 is a copy of Yak 141 .Only difference is that F-35 is stealth aircraft.
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Laelius View Drop Down
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Posts: 354 		  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 20:08
I'll concede that the JSF STOVL varient uses the same lift fan concept utilized by the Yak-141, but to claim its a copy would be false as the JSF's design was principally influenced by the F-22.  Your statement would be tantamount to me claiming that the Russians are ripping off US radar by deploying there own solid state radars or that since the Russians are developing their own stealth aircraft that they are obviously ripping off US designs.
 
But here check this out, the Russian Air Force is developing their own stealth fighters
 
 
 


Edited by Laelius - 17-Sep-2006 at 20:38
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 06:45
Originally posted by Desimir

Why you forget that russian answer of F-22 is still coming.It is true that Su-37 is more maneouvarable and faster than f-22,but it is just a base for next generation russian figthers.And this fighters are Mig 1.42 MFI and SU-47(S-37) Berkut.


desimir, in all due respect, ill belive it when i see it. Right now the raptor is begining its service...

as for the flanker (or growth variants) , this will always be one generation behind the F22, no doubt they'll give most other planes of its generation a good hiding.


Edited by Leonidas - 18-Sep-2006 at 06:48
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 06:54
Su is also cheaper, adding to its affordability.
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Desimir View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 06:56
You are right.SU-37 is just an experimental aircraft from 4th generation.We even dont know what possible capabilites will have the new russian fighters from 5th generation.About Su-37 it is the best aircraft from 4th generation.May be Mig-29 OVT has equal abillities.

That reminds me that we shouldn't compare F-22 with Su-37.It's better to compare F-22 with SU-47 and Mig 1.42 although these are not final versions.

Edited by Desimir - 18-Sep-2006 at 06:59
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xristar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 16:22
Su-35 is sold in almost half the price of Eurofighter.
Putin wants Greece to buy Su-35s.

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Desimir View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 16:53
I know that greece already have some russian weapons as SAM systems S-300.
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xristar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 04:28
Russia makes the best missiles (either AT or AA).

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Exarchus View Drop Down
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Posts: 760 		  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 15:11
The distinctions between F-22 and 35 have been fading a little, the F-22 will be capable of ground strike and the F-35 or air fighting.

In the end, the F-22 will look more and more like an uber F-35 (or the F-35 will look more and more like the lite F-22).

Of course, at first they were meant to be different, but as time goes they get more similar.
Vae victis!
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Kerimoglu View Drop Down
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Posts: 313 		  Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 06:07
Well I 've learned much on both of those fighters but we can see the only truth when they meet each other, cose nobody can say that Sukov 37 wont be able to use its cobra, salute manuevres or any-stealth radar to run away or catch FA 22, but we can say the same for FA 22
History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 09:34
exarchus, the opposition in this country to the F-35 is that it will never have the same power/weight than the F-22 or other fighters like the Euro. The design isnt great for high speed dogfights. Therefore it isnt going to dogfight very well in many situations no matter what electronics they add and the engine is tuned for different speeds and attitudes anyway.


 So the F-35 will be an ok fighter that may stuggle agianst a late 4th gen or 5th gen fighters but should become a great bomb truck. While the F-22 would be a great fighter and maybe even i pretty good bomber. 

Edited by Leonidas - 14-Oct-2006 at 09:38
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