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erdal tigin
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Topic: First World War. Posted: 09-May-2005 at 12:30 |
Anyone who can give the number of people dead n the first world war?With their nationalities please?
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Perseas
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 16:35 |
Originally posted by erdal tigin
Anyone who can give the number of people dead n the first world war?With their nationalities please?
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http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWdeaths.htm
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Posted: 22-May-2005 at 12:23 |
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
The only belligerent country of WW1 that is not responsible is Belgium.
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As far as I'm concerned, Germany also attack through Luxembourg, which
also was a neutral country and had barely any army at all. Some of the
German headquarters were located in Luxembourg city - which in a way
was one reason for Germany's failure in their war plan, as the army
leaders were hundreds of kilometres behind the frontline.
As I'm new here, I haven't been able to participate in this
conversation from the beginning, and there were some points that I'd
like to answer to and argue against. But first I'll have to read all
through.
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Posted: 22-May-2005 at 12:51 |
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
And where did you get that nonsense. The americans didn't
contribute much during the last German failed offensive, they were
supplied mostly with french and british equipment. In fact the
intervention of the americans worsens the situation, if the americans
weren't involved, France and Britian would have dismantled Germany
completely and Germany would have never seen the day again. In fact the
Italian played a far more important role than american by diverting the
German attention on the austro-italian front line.
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In a way that is true, but without the Americans, Germany might have
not signed the armstice. You have to bear in mind that the French
troops were not used in attacks any longer after Verdun, and therefore
the only troops that could have been able to attack the German troops
(without the Americans that is) in the spring-autumn of 1918 would have
been the British. And what I'm aware of, the British troops didn't have
enough soldiers to fight alone against the Germans. This is where the
Americans become important, as they brought many soldiers to the
Western Front to fight against the Germans.
You also have to remeber that America borrowed signifigant amounts of
money to the Entende-countries, and without that money they would have
not been able to fight against Germany and Austria-Hungary.
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Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 22-May-2005 at 22:49 |
Originally posted by EberkJuho
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
And where did you get that nonsense. The americans didn't contribute much during the last German failed offensive, they were supplied mostly with french and british equipment. In fact the intervention of the americans worsens the situation, if the americans weren't involved, France and Britian would have dismantled Germany completely and Germany would have never seen the day again. In fact the Italian played a far more important role than american by diverting the German attention on the austro-italian front line.
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In a way that is true, but without the Americans, Germany might have not signed the armstice. You have to bear in mind that the French troops were not used in attacks any longer after Verdun, and therefore the only troops that could have been able to attack the German troops (without the Americans that is) in the spring-autumn of 1918 would have been the British. And what I'm aware of, the British troops didn't have enough soldiers to fight alone against the Germans. This is where the Americans become important, as they brought many soldiers to the Western Front to fight against the Germans.
You also have to remeber that America borrowed signifigant amounts of money to the Entende-countries, and without that money they would have not been able to fight against Germany and Austria-Hungary. |
No, all that was needed was to encircle germany and let her starve out slowly, on a defensive stand. Eventually the country would have collapsed, famie was already chronic there while food and equipments were flooding into France. And you get one thing wrong, at that time French forces morale was at a high, tanks and a/cs were arriving in large numbers. The amercans fvcked that war. They fought so long to let the wounded and starving animal escaped without giving the final blow. the war was over, they just need to be patient, 1 more year perhaps is all that war needed. Germany was starting to implode.
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Posted: 23-May-2005 at 11:36 |
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
No, all that was needed was to encircle
germany and let her starve out slowly, on a defensive stand. Eventually
the country would have collapsed, famie was already chronic there while
food and equipments were flooding into France. And you get one thing
wrong, at that time French forces morale was at a high, tanks and a/cs
were arriving in large numbers. The amercans fvcked that war. They
fought so long to let the wounded and starving animal escaped without
giving the final blow. the war was over, they just need to be patient,
1 more year perhaps is all that war needed. Germany was starting to
implode. |
Well after the battle of Verdun, French army wasn't used in attacks any
longer, so it doesn't really matter whether the French morale was high
or not, since the generals had decided to use the French only as
defenders from that on.
The attack by the Americans and British made the German sign the
armstice, and you can only speculate (as you did already) what would
have happened if the Germans would have continued to fight, or if the
Germans had continued to fight the war without American intervension. I
mean why didn't the Germans sign the Armistice already after their last
failed offensive, just before the Americans had come in big number?
This does suggest, that the British and French were not powerful
enought to beat Germany alone.
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Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 24-May-2005 at 00:32 |
Well after the battle of Verdun, French army wasn't used in attacks any longer, so it doesn't really matter whether the French morale was high or not, since the generals had decided to use the French only as defenders from that on.
The attack by the Americans and British made the German sign the armstice, and you can only speculate (as you did already) what would have happened if the Germans would have continued to fight, or if the Germans had continued to fight the war without American intervension. I mean why didn't the Germans sign the Armistice already after their last failed offensive, just before the Americans had come in big number? This does suggest, that the British and French were not powerful enought to beat Germany alone. |
You didn't read what I said properly. We don't need to attack, all we need was starved them out. That's France and the UK remained on defensive stance. the result is obvious, Germany was lacking in everything plsu you forgot about Italy also, the italian and allies were succesful against on the austrian front. This mean germany would have been surrounded, while the bavarian and spartacist, communists etc were revolting internally. This war was over, they just didn't have enough patience. France and Uk has more than 5 million soldiers available to germany 3 million, the germans weren't in position to attack. Since we have more artillery, more equipment more everything, we moved on them in a choking strategy. The german morale was very low, starvation etc would have done the rest. The pilots would have bombed cities to increase the chaos. France did take part in most attack after verdun also, but in smaller scale and usually we the other armies. But in the final blow 1 million men would have been available.
Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 27-May-2005 at 16:15 |
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
You didn't read what I said properly. We don't need to attack,
all we need was starved them out. That's France and the UK
remained on defensive stance. the result is obvious, Germany was
lacking in everything plsu you forgot about Italy also, the
italian and allies were succesful against on the austrian front.
This mean germany would have been surrounded, while the bavarian and
spartacist, communists etc were revolting internally. This war was
over, they just didn't have enough patience. France and Uk has
more than 5 million soldiers available to germany 3 million, the
germans weren't in position to attack. Since we have more
artillery, more equipment more everything, we moved on them in a
choking strategy. The german morale was very low, starvation etc would
have done the rest. The pilots would have bombed cities to increase the
chaos. France did take part in most attack after verdun also, but in
smaller scale and usually we the other armies. But in the final blow 1
million men would have been available.
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After Russia pulled out of the war, both sides were equal. Germany and
it's allies definately had more than 3 million soldiers. That is why
Germany almost won the war, but because USA joined the war, the
Entende-side was able to win to the Alliance-side with sheer man
power...
But I have to check the numbers, I didn't find them anywhere. I just
remember my history teacher saying that both sides were almost equal
after Russia left (maybe UK and France had a bit more soldiers, but not
millions of soldiers more)
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Beowulf
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 10:09 |
This site hasn't got reliable data. For example, Serbia had much more killed and mobilized soldiers (1.5 million Serbs died in WWI).
Of course Germany was to blame for WWI (or it's mostly their fault). They pushed Autro-Hungaria into war.
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Temujin
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 15:36 |
thats ridiculous, Germany only sided with Austria because of that dumb alliance created by Bismarck, Germany just gave support because they felt betrayed and threatened by Russia and their Balkan ambitions and the alliance France was tryign to get with them.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 16:36 |
Originally posted by Beowulf
This site hasn't got reliable data. For example, Serbia had much more killed and mobilized soldiers (1.5 million Serbs died in WWI).
Of course Germany was to blame for WWI (or it's mostly their fault). They pushed Autro-Hungaria into war.
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Have to disagree there. The A-H political elites (and primarily the Hungarians), and the general staff (primarily Conrad v. Hoetzendorf) were the ones agitating for "preventive" war against Serbia.
Germany is to blame to the extent that the Kaiser and their own general staff let themselves be drawn into a war over the Balkans where they had no vital interests. The weaker ally, A-H, had vital interests there, but not Germany. The idiotic "Hamburg to Basra" railway project was not vital to Germany in any way....it looked good to some persons on the map.
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Maju
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Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 04:41 |
Originally posted by Temujin
thats ridiculous, Germany only sided with Austria
because of that dumb alliance created by Bismarck, Germany just gave
support because they felt betrayed and threatened by Russia and their
Balkan ambitions and the alliance France was tryign to get with
them. |
Though the direct motivations may have been as you say, overall there
was mute conflict between Germany and Britain over European hegemony
that had to explode. It did that way as it could have done any other
way. But the war was pretty much unavoidable, as Britain didnt want to
reliquish its hegemony and Germany had already become a greater
economic power than the UK. In the end the great winner was the USA and
almost without any commitment.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Maju
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Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 04:45 |
Originally posted by erdal tigin
Anyone who can give the number of people dead n the first world war?With their nationalities please? |
Each symbol indicates 100,000 loses
Source: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/20centry.htm#Specific
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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TheOrcRemix
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Posted: 13-Jan-2006 at 00:53 |
thats a cleaver little thing u got there maju.
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True peace is not the absence of tension, but the presence of justice.
Sir Francis Drake is the REAL Pirate of the Caribbean
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QueenCleopatra
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Posted: 18-Apr-2006 at 08:25 |
To be fair Germany is not soley responsible for this war. Thats not of course to say i condone what happened. But one has to look at the bigger picture.
To my mind the blame lies firstly with the system of alliances ie the Triple Entente and Triple Alliance. They determined the Fronts during the war and who would join the war.
But to pin it down to one person I pick not a politician or a leader. I look to the Serb who shot Crown prince Ferdinand of Austria dead in Czech. Austria declares war on the Balkans Germany being As ally comes to her aid and it goes from there.
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Genghis
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Posted: 20-Apr-2006 at 11:34 |
Originally posted by EberkJuho
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
You didn't read what I said properly. We don't need to attack, all we need was starved them out. That's France and the UK remained on defensive stance. the result is obvious, Germany was lacking in everything plsu you forgot about Italy also, the italian and allies were succesful against on the austrian front. This mean germany would have been surrounded, while the bavarian and spartacist, communists etc were revolting internally. This war was over, they just didn't have enough patience. France and Uk has more than 5 million soldiers available to germany 3 million, the germans weren't in position to attack. Since we have more artillery, more equipment more everything, we moved on them in a choking strategy. The german morale was very low, starvation etc would have done the rest. The pilots would have bombed cities to increase the chaos. France did take part in most attack after verdun also, but in smaller scale and usually we the other armies. But in the final blow 1 million men would have been available.
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After Russia pulled out of the war, both sides were equal. Germany and it's allies definately had more than 3 million soldiers. That is why Germany almost won the war, but because USA joined the war, the Entende-side was able to win to the Alliance-side with sheer man power...
But I have to check the numbers, I didn't find them anywhere. I just remember my history teacher saying that both sides were almost equal after Russia left (maybe UK and France had a bit more soldiers, but not millions of soldiers more)
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The blockade of Germany at that point though had reduced German armaments production to measly levels, and Germany spent itself on those last offensives in France, even if they had taken Paris they would have bled themselves white in the attempt and been destroyed by an Anglo-French counteroffensive.
Quetzl is right in saying that Germany in the end was defeated by the blockade. It was only lthe simplified task of defeating her armies in the field that was left for the Allies.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 20-Apr-2006 at 11:47 |
Originally posted by Genghis
Originally posted by EberkJuho
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
You didn't read what I said properly. We don't need to attack, all we need was starved them out. That's France and the UK remained on defensive stance. the result is obvious, Germany was lacking in everything plsu you forgot about Italy also, the italian and allies were succesful against on the austrian front. This mean germany would have been surrounded, while the bavarian and spartacist, communists etc were revolting internally. This war was over, they just didn't have enough patience. France and Uk has more than 5 million soldiers available to germany 3 million, the germans weren't in position to attack. Since we have more artillery, more equipment more everything, we moved on them in a choking strategy. The german morale was very low, starvation etc would have done the rest. The pilots would have bombed cities to increase the chaos. France did take part in most attack after verdun also, but in smaller scale and usually we the other armies. But in the final blow 1 million men would have been available.
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After Russia pulled out of the war, both sides were equal. Germany and it's allies definately had more than 3 million soldiers. That is why Germany almost won the war, but because USA joined the war, the Entende-side was able to win to the Alliance-side with sheer man power...
But I have to check the numbers, I didn't find them anywhere. I just remember my history teacher saying that both sides were almost equal after Russia left (maybe UK and France had a bit more soldiers, but not millions of soldiers more)
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The blockade of Germany at that point though had reduced German armaments production to measly levels, and Germany spent itself on those last offensives in France, even if they had taken Paris they would have bled themselves white in the attempt and been destroyed by an Anglo-French counteroffensive.
Quetzl is right in saying that Germany in the end was defeated by the blockade. It was only lthe simplified task of defeating her armies in the field that was left for the Allies.
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The strategy of economic warfare was tried by both sides, and was won by the Royal Navy. The economy and food imports of the Central Powers were disastrously impacted by the blockade. The submarine based strategy of Germany failed as it failed in WWII.
I do not know what the teacher in question thinks about the allies, but in actuality the British and French probably had double the manpower available to them due to their overseas empires and their command of the sea lanes. The presence of US troops in France had more a psychological impact as their unfamiliarity with the new methods of warfare, and also their inexperience, hampered their usefulness.
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