Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Topic: underestimating France? Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 11:14 |
Why is it when people diss France they always say France never won nothing. guess these guys never heard of Napoleon or Charlemagne or William of Normandy?
|
|
Paul
General
AE Immoderator
Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 12:37 |
or the 1998 world cup and 2000 European championship.
|
|
|
pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 18:17 |
Originally posted by o'bannon
Why is it when people diss France they always say France never won nothing. guess these guys never heard of Napoleon or Charlemagne or William of Normandy? |
It's the old "what have they done recently?" that gets 'em.
|
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 19:05 |
only arrogant people say that...but then again they also think that Africa is a country ...so it doesnt really matter.
|
|
pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 19:27 |
Originally posted by mamikon
only arrogant people say that...but then again they also think that Africa is a country ...so it doesnt really matter. |
Please explain.
|
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 20:13 |
lol, ok
in my experience, people who tell me that France did not win anything
are usually not intelligent, have a poor background in history and
geography...
|
|
pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 20:23 |
Originally posted by mamikon
lol, ok
in my experience, people who tell me that France did not win anything are usually not intelligent, have a poor background in history and geography...
|
Hmmm....thanks.
After 1919, France's achievements in international politics, and it's history rather suggests more failure and geographic regression than anything else.
Of course, France is prosperous and secure, but that is much obliged to the Marshal Plan, and to NATO, regardless of what the French think. Britain, The Soviet Union and The USA did not have Nazi stooges running their countries for four years. And they did not have to be liberated by someone else.
|
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 20:32 |
yes, that is true...but you are comparing France in both WWI and WWII with the strongest country at those times, Germany.
If Great Britain was not an island, and was connected to Germany, you can bet they would have been gonners too
And lets not forget, France is still one of the strongest countries in
the world...now how would a country that has not won anything, be at
the top of the food chain for the past 1000 or so years
|
|
pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 20:55 |
mamikon:
I will concede that until about 1860, France was a formidable part of the political community (at least in Europe).
Within the next 30-40 years, they were eclipsed by Britain, the German Empire and the United States (and then later by Russia/Soviet Union). The exhaustion of France was not generally realized until the 1930s. After 1940, France was a spent force.
France was certainly a large and prosperous power 1660-1860. But for 100 years before that it was an almost unending seat of civil war, and had been well defeated by the Habsburgs from about 1500 to 1559.
And, from 1700-1815, its most successful generals were foreigners. Marechal The Duke of Berwick (Jacobite Scots/English), Marechal Moritz de Saxe (German) and Napoleone Buonaparte (Corsican of Italian ancestry)
The French, I think, cling to glories past, and there are many of them. However, the attitude of the French (the French elites, mostly) in the 21st century is rather absurd. They are the recipient of American defense largesse in NATO; British foreign policy that directly benefits them, and German economic industriousness and capital development that France tends to take credit for.
Charlemagne was a Frank, and therefore a German. William the Bastard was a barely French Norman. The French elites in their Givenchy suits, and with their Bordeaux, Roquefort and Anjou pears would be appalled!
My view anyway.
Edited by pikeshot1600
|
|
mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2200
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 21:02 |
Originally posted by pikeshot1600
mamikon:
I will concede that until about 1860, France was a formidable part of the political community (at least in Europe).
Within the next 30-40 years, they were eclipsed by Britain,
the German Empire and the United States (and then
later by Russia/Soviet Union). The exhaustion of France was
not generally realized until the 1930s. After 1940, France was a
spent force.
France was certainly a large and prosperous power
1660-1860. But for 100 years before that it was an almost
unending seat of civil war, and had been well defeated by the
Habsburgs from about 1500 to 1559.
And, from 1700-1815, its most successful generals were
foreigners. Marechal The Duke of Berwick (Jacobite
Scots/English), Marechal Moritz de Saxe (German) and Napoleone
Buonaparte (Corsican of Italian ancestry)
The French, I think, cling to glories past, and there are many
of them. However, the attitude of the French (the French elites,
mostly) in the 21st century is rather absurd. They are the
recipient of American defense largesse in NATO; British foreign policy
that directly benefits them, and German economic industriousness and
capital development that France tends to take credit for.
Charlemagne was a Frank, and therefore a German.
My view anyway.
|
well yes compared to Soviet Union, Great Britain, Germany, and USA it was a spent force...however
lets draw some parallels between politics, the real world or whatever you want to call it and chess.
A grandmaster who constantly loses to the rank 1, rank 2, rank 3 in the
world is still a lot better than an amateur who beats novices
|
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Mar-2006 at 22:05 |
Just a saturday night thought- fulll of rum and Moroccan weed... while France may be hated by everyone -and maybe not without reason- it's also the heart of Europe.
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|
Halevi
Colonel
Joined: 16-Feb-2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 06:29 |
Originally posted by Maju
Just a saturday night thought- fulll of rum and Moroccan
weed... while France may be hated by everyone -and maybe not
without reason- it's also the heart of Europe.
|
Word. Perhaps its fate is in fact inextricably tied to its particuar geographical location.. no?
BTW, that Moroccan s*& 'll f*&^ u up! I once went near-raving
through the streets of Marrakesh with a blanket wrapped around me after
doin too much of that stuff.
Edited by Halevi
|
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
|
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 07:07 |
Originally posted by Halevi
Originally posted by Maju
Just a saturday night thought- fulll of rum and Moroccan
weed... while France may be hated by everyone -and maybe not
without reason- it's also the heart of Europe.
|
Word. Perhaps its fate is in fact inextricably tied to its particuar geographical location.. no? |
Absolutely. Geography isn't destiny but it is a conditionant. Anyhow, France used to be the largest country of Europe demographically too for a long time. That also marked France a lot historically, as it was the most powerful realm in its region naturally yet balanced by internal weaknesses (feudalism and feudal wars) or external "alliances" (Habsburg Empire).
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|
Halevi
Colonel
Joined: 16-Feb-2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 07:16 |
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by Halevi
Originally posted by Maju
Just a saturday night thought- fulll of rum and Moroccan
weed... while France may be hated by everyone -and maybe not
without reason- it's also the heart of Europe.
|
Word. Perhaps its fate is in fact inextricably tied to its particuar geographical location.. no? |
Absolutely. Geography isn't destiny but it is a conditionant.
Anyhow,
France used to be the largest country of Europe demographically too for
a long time. That also marked France a lot historically, as it was the
most powerful realm in its region naturally yet balanced by internal
weaknesses (feudalism and feudal wars) or external "alliances"
(Habsburg Empire).
|
Yes, but what about the hash? ; ) jk
|
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
|
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 18:00 |
The hash is off topic...
Understand that when wrote those lines I was so high (or rather low) that I had to review the message twice before I dared to click "post". Words were all roWds... if you know what I mean.
Too much rum.
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|
Halevi
Colonel
Joined: 16-Feb-2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 01:44 |
Originally posted by Maju
The hash is off topic...
Understand that when wrote those lines I was so high (or rather low) that I had to review the message twice before I dared to click "post". Words were all roWds... if you know what I mean.
Too much rum.
|
Yes, i do know what you mean... but lets not get off topic ; )
|
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
|
|
Frederick Roger
Colonel
Joined: 09-Jan-2005
Location: Portugal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 658
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 05:14 |
|
|
Halevi
Colonel
Joined: 16-Feb-2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 05:42 |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Seriously, though, everyone always forgets about Napoleon. *He
conquered Europe, people.* ... its just everything that's happened
since thats so amusing.
|
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 08:08 |
Sorry for abusing this thread but could anyone explain me why so many people don't like France or at least say so. Great Britain and the USA have a special history with France. But what about the rest? Did some people decide to dislike the French and now everyone swims with the tide?
|
|
Halevi
Colonel
Joined: 16-Feb-2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 584
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 08:24 |
Originally posted by Vespasianus
Sorry for abusing this thread but could anyone
explain me why so many people don't like France or at least say so.
Great Britain and the USA have a special history with France. But what
about the rest? Did some people decide to dislike the French and now
everyone swims with the tide?
|
We here in English Canada tend to swallow the Ango-stereotype of the
French whole... this isnt helped by our sometiemes-messy relations with
the Francophone Quebecois, who like to out-French the French.
All in all, i really like France... i lived there for a while as a kid,
and really enjoyed it. They have great writers, cinema, architecture
and are staunch secularists, which is pretty cool. Paris rocks. Et les
moules et frites... mon dieu..!
|
"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
|
|