Spanish Muslim

I must agree with Voyager: you are being dishonest in this discussion and making us waste our time. 

Originally posted by BurakMertTurk One of the exact knowledge about them is ..They teach Europans how to built house, and how to care for ilness

Europeans have been building homes since the stone age, and they already knew how to treat illnesses before the Arabs arrived on the scene. The History Channel has a lot of explaining to do...

I can give you some information on the situation of muslims in Portugal. They ceased to exist sometime around the sixteenth century. They were never as important as they were in Castille. The Moors were simply artisans, and nothing else. There are no crypto-muslims in Portugal. However, there are crypto-jews in Portugal, living in a village called Belmonte. Their rite is somewhat different from the jewish norm.

What are you talking about?

I never said its a fact. I said it is possible, then showed fact to show that it is possible. Which is why you did not directly quote me

Why are getting so emotional over an internet post?

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon I do not understand why the people living in the regions of spain could be so unpatriotic. They are patriotic to the basque land, or to Andalucia. Why cant someone go up to someone in spain and say "who are you" and the reply would be "I am a spaniard"

Because it's against what we feel we are. To Basques particularly union in Spain has been forced, breaking our country in two and persecuting our tongue and traditions.

For you white Angloamericans is easy as for Castilain Spaniards to claim a nationality that your culture are central to. But for the opressed minorities (Native Americans, fro instance) it's not so easy.

I've been in the USA, and one of the things that most impacted me was a Native American in the center of NYC telling me: "Welcome to my Country". Surrealistic.

You first destroy and enslave and then dare to question "why don't you feel one of us". No, thanks! Why don't get your hands off our territory?

Hi,
Maju are you sure of the all "we" and "you" thing your talking about. You
sound like you're very attached to your "roots" for someone claiming he
has no master. I mean as long as you've got the liberty to talk Vasco, why
don't you admit you can be Spanish, after all, it is little more than a piece
of paper.
Besides, Spainards have never massacred any poor Basque tribes.
Bye.

Originally posted by Maharbbal Hi, Maju are you sure of the all "we" and "you" thing your talking about. You sound like you're very attached to your "roots" for someone claiming he has no master. I mean as long as you've got the liberty to talk Vasco, why don't you admit you can be Spanish, after all, it is little more than a piece of paper.

It is much more than just a piece of paper, mon ami, it is the oficial language, what our children learn in school, the right to manage our own bussiness...

Spanish or French have not our sensibility nor our priorities.

Nor they have any interest in our ancient language, which is in dire danger of extintion.

It is not any "replicable" language, you know, it's the most unique language of Europe, the only remain of its kind of our common pre-Indo-European past.

We need our own self-rule to at least attempt to save it.

And I think that other Europeans, included French and Spanish, should be very concerned about it. Stonehenge, Karnac or Los Millares, Altamira or Les Ezyes, are improtant monuments that must be studied and preserved but they are mute. Euskara (the Basque language) is a living fossil and should be cared as patrimony of Humankind (or at least of all Europe).

As I say, only self-rule can guarantee that this happens. Alternatively, France and Spain could make it foicila in all their territories and make everybody learn it... but I find it very unlikely.

Though it would just be "a piece of paper" maybe...

Besides, Spainards have never massacred any poor Basque tribes. Bye.

I said "mutatis, mutandi".

Castilians and Aragonese (aka Spaniards) have invaded our country and annexed its lands, sometimes in hummiliating terms, as still happens with Trebino. They have imposed their religion and supressed our democratic laws... that's more than enough - specially considering that we have never invaded them.

In fact both Castile and Aragon belonged at some time to Pamplona, yet they were never annexed nor opressed but made kingdoms our of simple counties.

How did they pay? Attacking us, conquering us, dividing our lands.

No. It has no arrangement. Who will trust Spaniards? Fool me once: your fault; fool me twice, my fault.

We can also discuss the situation in France, where no entity at all exists that can preserve the cultural and tehnic legacy of Basques. Even the most basic of the demands: the departement, claimed by all Basque politicians witout exception, is promised and then denied - once and again.

Why should we trust the French either?

Hi,
To Maju:

Thanks a lot! For the first time in my (short) life I can testify that
anarchist/nationalists still exist.

I must admit the moto: "you've done this to us for X centuries" makes me
sick. By the way, no need to seek this long to realise you shouldn't trust
any government.

Basques did awfull things too. If I am not too wrong fallangistas were
100% basques. (Navare = Eustaki)

And 'you" (well old times ETA to be exact) served them right: Carrearo
Blanco (may the devil take good care of his rotten soul) didn't die alone.

And of course you do not mention Basques have a state of their own in
Spain. Finaly, in what sense is basque language threatened? You have the
right and the means to teach it. It is just extremely difficult and almost
completly unuseful.

PS: Sorry it is out of the thread.

To Kapikulu:
What you're saying is not exactly right. Jews and some Mores (as they
were defined) of the kingdom of Granada were forced to flee or to convert
becoming conversos and a few decades latter suffered the attacks of the
Holly Office (the Inquisition) as so. But, many were those who convert
peacefully. Basically they were more or less following the religion of their
lords.
It took more then two centuries for Islam to become majoritary in Spain.
And it took two centuries from the great battle of Las Navas de Tolosas to
the begining of the Granada war for the ex-muslim populations to
become christian.
It is then a double and very slow process. Only the modern Spanish state
couldn't wait that long... Hence the expultion/massacres/convertion.

Edited by Maharbbal

Hi,
to Maju:
quote: "In any case the question is wether we decide or what. If we can
decide, then it will be no problem. If we can't decide, there will remain
being problems till we can."

So true. Lets only hope you'll take the good decision.
Bye.

Edited by Maharbbal

Originally posted by Degredado Originally posted by BurakMertTurk One of the exact knowledge about them is ..They teach Europans how to built house, and how to care for ilness Europeans have been building homes since the stone age, and they already knew how to treat illnesses before the Arabs arrived on the scene. The History Channel has a lot of explaining to do...

You can say that again, the history channel's bias against medieval europeans is becoming very irritating.  Their bias is blatantly apparent in most of the history channel's medieval programs that I have seen.  Of course europeans knew how to build houses, what else would they have lived in?  arabs did not teach them these things.

What is the most famous medieval tale of Spain?