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Worst ruler of your country?

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  Quote boody4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Worst ruler of your country?
    Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 12:08
Who do you think is the worst ruler of your country and why?
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 10:32

My country is Turkey, which is the successor state to the Ottoman Empire. Although we never had a scarcity of bad leaders, I'd say the worst ever were the Ittihat ve Terakki Cemiyeti (Comittee of Union and Progress-CUP) triumvirate (Jemal, Talat, Enver Pashas) that ruled the Ottoman Empire from 1908 to 1918.

In just 10 years, they oppressed the people, tried to Turkify the Arabs and other minorities, ethnically cleansed the Armenians, caused the Empire to join the World War on the German side after Germany was engaged in two-front war (which according to the German high command meant no chance of victory). They were also tyrannical governors and incompetitive military leaders, when they took the matters directly in their hands. Enver's disregard for logistics caused the non-combat loss of 90000 troops in a counter-offensive in the mountains of Eastern Turkey (they came from the desert, equipped for desert warfare and froze to death at -30 degrees celcius). In the end the 600-year-old Empire collapsed and partitioned between the Allies, and Istanbul and Anatolia were under occupation. The peoples of Turkey (mainly Turks and Kurds), already devastated by numerous wars, had to fight yet another war- and this time for independence- because of that.

Not that I'd like to have the OE live to this day, but the events of the early 20th century left Turkey devastated, Middle East Arabs divided and colonised. Turkey was spared colonial rule, partly due to the actions of the Turkish nationalists led by Mustafa Kemal, and partly due to the fact that there is no oil to speak of in Turkey. The Empire could have been dismantled in a better way, and the good aspects (tolerance for minorities) could have been retained for the new Turkish nation-state, but unfortunately many negative aspects of the CUP rule were continued to this day in Turkish political life.

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  Quote Ptolemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 13:17

Canada:

Defenbaker (1950's,1960's I think). He never had good relations with America and the economy wasn't doing too good either.

Chretian(sp?) (1992-2003). He was a wimp on the Quebec issue giving the province special rights and status. IMHO, this will cause more autonomy problems, because Quebecers now see themselves as more special than before. He also alienated the west.



Edited by Ptolemy
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 14:30

bah my post died ! I have to re-post!

ok I had two

Andrew Jackson= abloished bank of America, genocide against Native Americans, massive tariffs.

George Bush II= cut troop pay while sending them into combat, uses terrorists and fear for political gain, is a religious extremist who shares more in common with Osama than myself and lotsa corruption.  The decline and fall of America has begun.

Other crappy rulers are Franklin Pierce, James Buchana, Warren G Harding, and of course George III king of England.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 14:42

Somehow I know I am going to get yelled at for this but oh well....

Lyndon Johnson.  The man could not make a decision in Vietnam and probably killed more Americans than necesary because of indecision.

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 16:45

İsmet İnn was a type of dictator, his succesors, the DP headed by Adnan Menderes was too corrupted (and too American-oriented).

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 17:15
Originally posted by ihsan

İsmet İnn was a type of dictator, his succesors, the DP headed by Adnan Menderes was too corrupted (and too American-oriented).

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk was also a dictator. Inn had bad aspects (minority policy, authoritarian inner politics, as said) but was good at investment (developing the industry and the infrastructure), continuing the modernisation and westernisation(spreading the education to people) and keeping the country independent- which was a great achievement during WW2. Later right-wing leaders like Menderes, Demirel and especially zal failed at these.

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 17:42

But İnn and his Post-Atatrk CHP was quiet corrupted.

Yet, I can say the most corrupted governments in Turkey were those coalitions in the last decade

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 18:02
Well i don't know if Karl Vaino was our leader, rather a puppet of Moscow, but he didn't even speak Estonian and that makes him the worse leader in my book.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 20:18

Oh Tobodai, you beat me. I was gonna say Jackson.

 

Anyway I don't think Dubya's that bad of a leader in fact his politics further my personal agenda.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 21:36

I'm gonna say either Jimmy carter (proof that good men make bad presidents) or pres. George II (proof that warmongering morons make bad presidents)

On a sidse note, I am actually a distant relative of Johnson so i take personal offense to attacks on his presidency(just kidding I really dont care)

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  Quote Tonifranz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 00:12

Buchanan. James Buchanan. He just sat on his behind while the Southern states seceded and dumped the problem on Lincoln. This alone would make him worst.

Jackson was one of the best U.S. Presidents. At least he had guts to stand up to South Carolina when it attempted nullification. He was a strong president, and compared to other 19th century mediocrities, he was one of the best.

At least Carter and Bush didn't just make the U.S. weak like Buchanan.

As for Bush, you have to wait for a period of time to past to heap judgement on him. It's too early. Wait 20 years or so after his death to see if he really is the worst U. S. President (I don't think he is one of the worst, but I'm still reserving judgement).  Remember, in his time, Warren Harding in his time as president was considered one of the best Presidents, and Franklin Roosevelt in the 1930s and Lincoln at the height of the Civil War was considered by many as one of the worst.

 

 



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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 09:19

It is not good to talk so much.

My country did not have a good ruler since 1950.

İsmet İnn was a good leader I think.He was a bit mean,because in his period,the world lived its second war and Turkish Republic was only 16 years old. 

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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 11:03
Originally posted by Ptolemy

Canada:

Defenbaker

I can't say he was particulairly bad.  Far worst was Molroony - High deficits and GST need I say more. As to alinating the west no one did more than Tredeau with the National energy program.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 14:41
Originally posted by Tonifranz

Buchanan. James Buchanan. He just sat on his behind while the Southern states seceded and dumped the problem on Lincoln. This alone would make him worst.

Jackson was one of the best U.S. Presidents. At least he had guts to stand up to South Carolina when it attempted nullification. He was a strong president, and compared to other 19th century mediocrities, he was one of the best.

At least Carter and Bush didn't just make the U.S. weak like Buchanan.

As for Bush, you have to wait for a period of time to past to heap judgement on him. It's too early. Wait 20 years or so after his death to see if he really is the worst U. S. President (I don't think he is one of the worst, but I'm still reserving judgement).  Remember, in his time, Warren Harding in his time as president was considered one of the best Presidents, and Franklin Roosevelt in the 1930s and Lincoln at the height of the Civil War was considered by many as one of the worst.

 

 

 

no, judgement can be heaped on Bush because of the goof ups.  Never in US history before now have we pre emptively invaded a natio on flase pretences.  We already know it was qrong, that the reasons were lies, we already know we have more enemies now then we did before.  Hosni Mubarak said if we invade Iraq there will be a thousand Bin Ladens created, he was wrong though, its more like 1 million.  I believe as time goes on Bush will only continue to look worse, unles the theocracy gets power and makes him their patron saint that is.

 

ANd how possibly Janus, could he further your personal agenda? Unless of course you mean make the US government easier to overthrow?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 14:48
Originally posted by Tobodai

Never in US history before now have we pre emptively invaded a natio on flase pretences.

What about Panama?
The CIA knew for years Noriega was a drug dealer, still they supported him. Besides that, no-one's going to invade a nation and kill hundreds of people to arrest one drug dealer
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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 15:45
I know in ancient history for Iran/Persia, Darius III is defiently considered one of the worst. Also the Qaujars were a fairly incompetent dynasty of Turkish rulers in Persia. From Nader Shah and Zand Dynasty gains, they lost just about everything for greed, money and personal gain.


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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 16:46
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

It is not good to talk so much.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

My country did not have a good ruler since 1950.

İsmet İnn was a good leader I think.He was a bit mean,because in his period,the world lived its second war and Turkish Republic was only 16 years old.

The only good thing he did was to prevent Turkey from entering WWII. Apart from that, what good did he do really?

(Though I'm not interested in Recent Turkish History...)

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  Quote boody4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 17:45

Originally posted by Dawn

I can't say he was particulairly bad.  Far worst was Molroony - High deficits and GST need I say more.

I think Mulrooney was the worst, he's the reason why we have a high debt and he wasn't very competent.

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  Quote Roughneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 18:44

I'll be nice and reserve judgement, although I definitely think he's going to be in the running.

 

I'll offically say Hoover.  When the stock market collapsed and put millions out of work, he did almost nothing.

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