What was the worlds most important battle

Originally posted by cebeci Originally posted by Heraclius Originally posted by cebeci Originally posted by Ikki The empire was saved  saved and?  Do you see no relevance in the Arabs not overcoming the only obstacle to them overrunning the Balkans and beyond? Byzantine victory prevented a dramatic change in history, took about 800 years until the empire was finally destroyed and the Turks established themselves in Europe, proper. Had the Arabs achieved what the Ottomans did all those centuries earlier theres no reason to assume the Arabs would of stopped at the Balkans, but just kept on going westward. if your and Ikki's arguments are valid then why not counting battle of poitiers (spelling may be incorrect) BW arabs and franks, which should be much more important than the two sieges just because of potential inevitable advance of arabs against weak mid-western european states rather than byzantines which was far more powerful than them?

Because Poiters is overrated. France easily had the manpower to defeat an invasion larger than that, infact the Muslim forces at Poiters were little better than a scout/raiding force. Invading Europe via Spain was just too much of a strain on the Muslim's line of supply and communications. You cannot seriously compare the Muslim force besieging Constantinople in 717 (over 80,000 ground troops outside the city, plus marines and rowers for 1,400 ships blockading at sea) to a small scout force.

The Muslim attacks on Byzantium were attacks on their nextdoor neighbour, they could throw their main military force against Byzantium. because they could not defeat Byzantium, the main invasion route to Europe via the south was closed. Tens of thousands of troops who could have marched into Europe and converted it at swordpoint were detained in the East fighting a Byzantine Empire which proved itself especially adaptable and stubborn. By the time Byzantium was defeated, Western Europe was made up of strong nation states rather than weak and divided feudal warlords.

People, we've had this discussion before.....

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76&P N=4

Anyway, here are my top battles:

Gaugamela (323BC) - Alexander's victory meant the collapse of the Persian Empire and the spread of Hellenistic civilization in Asia.

Yarmuk (636)- Byzantine defeat resulting in the first great wave of Muslim conquests

Manzikert 1071 -lost Anatolia for the Byzantines and opened the door for the Turks to dominate the Near East and parts of Europe

Plessy (1757) - ensured British domination of India; This enabled Britain to become the most powerful country in the world for the next 2 centuries

Waterloo 1815 - defeat of Napoleon changed fate of Europe and the world

Stalingrad 1943 - see above only replace Napoleon with Hitler

Tenochtitlan 1521 - allowed Spain to conquer Mexico; this combined with  Cajamarca and the conquest of Peru (1534) eventually raised Europe from the status of backwater to the preeminent region in the world for the next 4 and half centuries

The on going war against gravity!

Just kidding.  I would say the battle of Tours, because Western Civilization would have been Islamified if the battle was to be lost, and all would have followed. 

Mantzikert, undoubtedly (in my opinion). The Byzantine defeat, a result of treachery, deceit, and plain poor generaling by Romanus Diogenes resulted in a catastrophe that enabled the Turks to establish control over most of Anatolia, thus destroying what was left of the thematic system. Had Manuel Comnenus not decided to delay in dealing with the Turks, however, most of the damage may have been repaired--but he did, oh those lucky Turks . Still, my answer is Mantzikert.

-Akolouthos

yes, lucky turks  but luck loves strongs