What about Karabakh?

Okay this is another controvercial topic (and I hope it doesn't attract any "flamewars"). But let me put in my views.

I think what happened in Karabakh (basically between Armenian and R. Azerbaijan) was a tragic event in the region. I personally don't want another war happen. I hope the Azerbaijani leaders are smarter than that. (and lets hope foreigners, ie USA, Russia, Turkey, Iran..etc dont interfere).

having said that. I say Karabakh should NOT separate from the Republic. Why? because the muslim refugees should return to their home and live along with their armenian neighbours in Peace and vice-versa. The region is a dilute region. so no ethnicity should lay claims. The republic of Azerbaijan should democratize and snap out of its tribalist and chauvinist system. its only natural one day they will with the help of the people.

Both countries, Armenia and Azerbaijan, should make peace with each other and acknowledge each others' crimes. So thereafter, the healing process between the two historically close people can begin. finally.

these seem simple, they are. I realize the issue is far more complicated than anyone knows. But the end product should be reconcilation and co-existance. The only outcome.

"It will not survive on its own".

so how about staying with FSR Azerbaijan with the condition I gave above?

again... what about the condition I gave?

"The republic of Azerbaijan should democratize and snap out of its tribalist and chauvinist system. "

once a time %25 of the population was armenian somewhere in the world

But they still insisted not to live under the rule of majority.

and it suddenly grew to %37-38 in one year(no,I dont think armenians had reproduced quickly ,so what did they do to enlarge the ratio of their population,shall not be discussed here.coz they will probably deny it -no offense- 

and after 15 years from the beginning of a century(I cant remember which century it is  ) it degraded less than %5

hmm really interestingg ....

Aside from being a majoritarily Armenian region throughout the centuries, Karabagh was historically Armenian.

Compared to the Armenians, Georgians, and Iranians, the Azerbaijanis are newcomers in the region.

Hi there.

The karabagh never ever was a part of armenia. It's very simple to explain, because until 1918 there was not such political definition like country of armenia in caucauses. the armenians border was much more behind the cacucuses mountains.

Karabagh consists of two parts: 1- mountain's karabagh and 2- fields' karabagh. The population of big karabagh region which includes also Lachin, kelbejar,fizuli,zangelan and agdam districts as well was predomenantly azeri-muslim population. The total population was about 800.000 people and only 120.000 of them were armenians. At the moment there are exactly 800.000 azeri refugees from the karabagh.

historicaly, karabagh ( or arcax in ancient albanian langv.) always was part of albanian - azeri states. if you need any more information or details, i can easily provide you with them.

as for population of armenia itself, it is also very interesting story)))

100 years ago the population of armenia consists of 60% azeries , 25% armenians and 15% russsian, kurds, georgians and others.

now we have 0% of azeries in armenia. so during 100 years, they could transfer majority into zero in their country.

armenians in karabagh should clearly understand, that if they want their children live in piece and prosperity, they need accept the constituation of Azerbaijan Republic and confirm their acceptance of territorial integrity of their mother-land named Azerbaijan. from other side, the government of Azerbaijan should recognise armenian minority and provide them with maximum possibly status of autonomy within azeri borders.

unfortunately there is no other way to resolve this konflict piecefully.  the only other way we have is war.

"Isn't it the other way around? Until 1918, Azerbaijan was called Shirvan, and then Province of Baku. The Caucasus wasn't divided along ethnic lines, but between major cities (Yerevan, Tiflis, Baku, Elizavetpol) during Russian reign. Caucasians"

Is the name of the country is important???? All countries which exist in azerbaijan land were azeri by political, etnicity and historical means.( Albaniya, Atropatena, Atabegs state,Eldigiz state,Shirvan-Shirvanshax state, Sefevid empire,azeri xanats,Azerbaijan Demokratic Republic, Azerbaijan SSR and Azerbaijan Republic). The bottom line is that azeri people lived in this region always despite the name of the country they build. Albanian state was formed 2300 years ago. There were 26 albanian tribes at that momnet and 5 of them were turkish speaking tribes. The one of the major tribe called khazar was turkish by etnicity. There were number of turkish oguz trbies which moved to Albania during VII-X c. and process of assimilation between albanians and turkish people was going on for a centures. Azeri nation has two roots - albanian and turkish, and of course turkish roots are more strength and more exist now, simply because their were more stronger and islam which been accepted by people of Albania unified them. This is simple.

Does name of Armenia was exist before 20th century????...no. Armenians had a different names of their states - Kingdom of Ani, Kingdom of Killikia, Urartu ( armenian sayas that urartu is armenian state but in fact it was multinational state ruled by juerish dinasty) ))

"What about all the Armenian churches located in the Republic of Armenia, which were built as early as the 4th century?"

it is not true. I explain why. Before 1441 the centre of armenian grigorian churche was located in Killikia and only in 1441 the armenian katolikos ( head of armenian churche) was moved to Echmiadzin near present Irevan and only since that moment they started to build armenian churches in this land. By saying this, I can't guarantee that there were not any armenian churche in caucause before. Of course they had their churches there, but not many, because they never had state in this region. Armenians lived in many part of Middle East and Asia. They even created their states in absolutely different locations. For example the kingdom of Killikia was about 2000 miles from kindgdom of Ani))))

"It's the first time I'm that Karabagh was majoritarily Azeri, even from an Azeri. It is well known that prior to the war, Karabagh was 75% Armenian, and the rest was Azeri, Kurdish, etc."

Yes if you are talking about Nagorny Karabagh ( mountains Karabagh) so yes the majority is armenian, but nagorny karabagh is only 3% territory of Azerbaijan. But right now armenians with help from russians occupied about 20% of azeri land which consists of Big Karabagh including those districts. So if we are talking about whole karabagh occupied by armenians there are absolutely majority of azeries.

"Actually, it was part of Armenia, and Artsakh is the way Armenians called it."

I am very sorry but if you don't have any real arguments,you can say that Karabagh was also part of China))))

As I said there was no such state Armenia in this land. Artsakh is the old albanian name and was small albanian kingdom inside of Albania state. And during 17th 18th and 19th centuries it was KArabagh xanat with khan named Panah khan Dzhevanshir Karabaxly and ruled by his family during more that 200 years. The roots of Panah Khan Dzhevanshir from one side coming from albanian royal family Mexranids and their last and most significant king Dzhevanshir Mexranid. His son was married on turkish princess and since that moment it's became a mostly turkish-azeri dinasty.

"Whether it was part of Caucasian Albania or not, it doesn't make a difference. They had stronger cultural relations with Armenians than with Turks, because of their religion, alphabet, etc."

It is tru and not true at the same time. There were three main nations in this region- albanians ( azeri) , iberians ( georgian) and hayks ( armenians). All three nations has a lot of simularity but at the same time a lot of differences. And the biggest difference between albanians and armenians was a religon, because armenians were monofizist and they build their own independent churche, but albansians and georgians were ortodoks and they stay within it till the end.

But after albanian and turks were assimilated and the turkish language and culture started to dominate and after of course the majority of former albanians became a muslim, the small part of them who wants to be continue christians became more and more closer to armenians. And it was finalised when in 1836 by the order of Russian ortodoks churche the Albanian Independetn Churche was closed and tagged to armenian churche.

"Where did you find those numbers? "

In Russian Imperial statistics archive. You can fidn it as well.)))

"Armenians were a large minority in Baku, Sumgait, and in other towns of Azerbaijan. What happened to them?"

Yes armenians started to arrive in Baku after oil discovery and there was a big armenian community in Baku. And I must confess that armenians in Baku were one of the richest community and they never had a problem. The armenian nachionalists dashnaks created all problems for armenians. After war on karabagh started, they been moved from Baku. But only after war started. Azeries were moved from Armenia during whole 20th century.

"What makes you think that the Armenians of Karabagh will trust the Azerbaijanis after all that happened? "

Common sence)))

they don't have any other  choice to survive.

"Karabaghtsis are much smarter than that."

I don't think so my friend.