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Origin of etymology of countries

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Origin of etymology of countries
    Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 05:48
Turkey (Türkiye in Turkish), as you know, it comes from nation of Turks. The last suffix should be arabic (the suffix nisba)  but the honor of first usage in written belongs to Byzantine Empire

There are similar samples in history

one example:
Dawla al-Turkiyya / State of Turkey = the official name of Mamluk Sultanate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawla_al-Turkiyya

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  Quote oxydracae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 09:34
"Dawla al-Turkiyya" Isn't this term means "State of Turks" ? Is "Turkey" a right word, as it is coined from a Græco-Latin word "Turcia" ? I have just a basic understanding of Arabic, So Please tell me what is a difference between "Dawla al-Turkiyya", "Dawlat al-Turkiyya" and "Dawlat-ul-Turkiyya" ?
 
and there was another name for Turkey or Ottoman Empire "Sultanat-e-Rūm", I believe derived from "Sultanate of Rome" as Rome was another name for Byzantine Empire.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 10:10
Supposedly the name Turkey came from medieval Latin
"... The country name Turkey (c.1369) is from M.L. Turchia...."http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Turk
Also "...The first recorded use of the term "Türk" or "Türük" as an autonym is contained in the Orkhon inscriptions of the Göktürks (Celestial Turks) of Central Asia (c. 8th century)..."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

I believe that the official name for the ottoman empire was indeed Sultanat e Rum, or "...Devlet-i ʿAliyye-yi ʿOsmâniyye[7].../ /Sublime Ottoman State/.

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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 15:24
Originally posted by oxydracae

"Dawla al-Turkiyya" Isn't this term means "State of Turks" ? Is "Turkey" a right word, as it is coined from a Græco-Latin word "Turcia" ? I have just a basic understanding of Arabic, So Please tell me what is a difference between "Dawla al-Turkiyya", "Dawlat al-Turkiyya" and "Dawlat-ul-Turkiyya" ?


The correct term would be "al-Dawla al-Turkiyya" which means "The Turkish State".
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 13:15
Originally posted by oxydracae

"Dawla al-Turkiyya" Isn't this term means "State of Turks" ? Is "Turkey" a right word, as it is coined from a Græco-Latin word "Turcia" ? I have just a basic understanding of Arabic, So Please tell me what is a difference between "Dawla al-Turkiyya", "Dawlat al-Turkiyya" and "Dawlat-ul-Turkiyya" ?
 
and there was another name for Turkey or Ottoman Empire "Sultanat-e-Rūm", I believe derived from "Sultanate of Rome" as Rome was another name for Byzantine Empire.


Originally posted by Don Quixote

Supposedly the name Turkey came from medieval Latin
"... The country name Turkey (c.1369) is from M.L. Turchia...."http://www.etymonline.com

Also "...The first recorded use of the term "Türk" or "Türük" as an autonym is contained in the Orkhon inscriptions of the Göktürks (Celestial Turks) of Central Asia (c. 8th century)..."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

I believe that the official name for the ottoman empire was indeed Sultanat e Rum, or "...Devlet-i ʿAliyye-yi ʿOsmâniyye[7].../ /Sublime Ottoman State/.


1-As Arab told, correct translation is "State of Turkey", not Turks.
   It can be "State of Land of Turks"Smile

2-I think official name is "Devlet-i ʿAliyye-yi ʿOsmâniyye" as Don Quixote said, but Sultanat el Rum could be used (yes oxydracae, because of Romans ). However english term of "Sultanat el Rum" normally means different country, not Ottomans. It means another Turkish state. We call it Anatolian Seljuqs in Turkish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Rum

Which is the first one I don't know, Turchia or Turkiyya?

Iran has one of the oldest and rich culture. Addition it is natural and historical neigbour of Turks. I believe that name of Turkey comes from Persian or Arab. Latins and Greeks met with Turks very later. These rich cultures should have given a name for land of their neighbours 




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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 13:29
It seems that the Greek cognate of the word is older that the medieval Latin one:
"...The Greek cognate of this name, Tourkia (Greek: Τουρκία) was originally used by the Byzantines to describe medieval Hungary[dn 1][21][page needed][22] (since pre-Magyar Hungary was occupied by proto-Turkic and Turkic tribes, such as the Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Kabars, Pechenegs and Cumans.) Similarly, the medieval Khazar Empire, a Turkic state on the northern shores of the Black and Caspian seas, was referred to as Tourkia (Land of the Turks) in Byzantine sources. However, the Byzantines later began using this name to define the Seljuk-controlled parts of Anatolia in the centuries that followed the Battle of Manzikert in 1071...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

It may have passed in Latin from the Byzantine/Medieval Greek. "Turkiyya" sounds Turkish to me, while "Turchia" soungs Greek, has a Greek ending for 1st conjugation feminine nouns, and all Greek names for countries as feminine. So I'd suppose that the Greek "Turchia" was a Greek-fyied form some Hunnish-Avarish word, /since the Huns and the Avars were in the area before the Turks came/, but  this is my conjecture only, not something official. Not only the "land of the Turks" was called "Turchia" by the Byzantines, but the lad inhabited by Huns, Avars, etc, who cannot be called "Turks" per se; Central Asian yes, but not Turks.

Or, since word "Turk" is used in 8th century /for the GoTurks/, and if this is the earliest form the word we know, then the word Greek/Latin word "Turchia" may have come from it, with meaning "land of the Turks".



Edited by Don Quixote - 29-Feb-2012 at 13:36
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 13:55
Is this same Bird that describe name of ancient Egypt,Misir?Bird's mouth is Nile.Tell me English name for
inner part of mouth?I have read in forum that Turkey was name of delicious small bird with sweet meat.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 18:46
You mean the bird "turkey"? But it's rather big, not small. There are many wild turkeys where I live, roam up and down in groups. One time my dogs scared a flock of them and they all flew upon a tree, like 10 turkey on one tree - then they sat there and talked to each other while my dogs barked at them.
http://www.kidzone.ws/animals/turkey8.JPG
"...1540s, "guinea fowl" (Numida meleagris), imported from Madagascar via Turkey, by Near East traders known as turkey merchants. The larger North American bird (Meleagris gallopavo) was domesticated by the Aztecs, introduced to Spain by conquistadors (1523) and thence to wider Europe, by way of North Africa (then under Ottoman rule) and Turkey (Indian corn was originally turkey corn or turkey wheat in English for the same reason).

The word turkey was first applied to it in English 1550s because it was identified with or treated as a species of the guinea fowl. The Turkish name for it is hindi, lit. "Indian," probably via M.Fr. dinde (c.1600, contracted from poulet d'inde, lit. "chicken from India," Mod.Fr. dindon), based on the common misconception that the New World was eastern Asia...." http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=turkey

So, the Europeans called the turkey "turkey" because it was sold through Turkish merchants, but the Turks called it "hindi", because they thought it came from India. Lots of geography in this bird's name. It's common lingustic manner to call a plant or an animal by the country where supposedly it came - like in Bulgarian the word for "orange" is "portocal", because they thought that it imported from Portugal.

I can't think about an English word for in 'inner part of the mouth' - gums are there, but gums means only gums, not the whole thing. In Bulgarian "mouth" is "usta" and "ustie" is the beginning of a river, literally "the mouth of a river".
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  Quote oxydracae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 23:59

Originally posted by Arab

The correct term would be "al-Dawla al-Turkiyya" which means "The Turkish State".

Thanks for telling the correct term and correct meaning. Clap

Originally posted by Don Quixote

"...The Greek cognate of this name, Tourkia (Greek: Τουρκία) was originally used by the Byzantines to describe medieval HungaryHYPERLINK "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey" \l "cite_note-20"[dn 1]HYPERLINK "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey" \l "cite_note-21"[21][page needed][22] (since pre-Magyar Hungary was occupied by proto-Turkic and Turkic tribes, such as the Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Kabars, Pechenegs and Cumans.) Similarly, the medieval Khazar Empire, a Turkic state on the northern shores of the Black and Caspian seas, was referred to as Tourkia (Land of the Turks) in Byzantine sources. However, the Byzantines later began using this name to define the Seljuk-controlled parts of Anatolia in the centuries that followed the Battle of Manzikert in 1071...."

So, Turks confused Byzantines a lot Ouch

Originally posted by Don Quixote

 

So, the Europeans called the turkey "turkey" because it was sold through Turkish merchants, but the Turks called it "hindi", because they thought it came from India.

lol. and Indians dont have any word for this bird Tongue

_________________________________
 
I have an old encyclopedia written before the First World War, and here is the definition of Rūm
 
Rūm (Arabic: روم) (English: Rome)
1. Long Back, the Sultanate of Rūm was spread far away around the Mediterranean Sea. Then because of slackness in administration, it got divided into two parts. One Eastern Sultanate of Rūm and second Western Sultanate of Rūm. Then Muslims occupied eastern Sultanate and established Constantinople as capital. As this was part of original Sultanate of Rūm, therefore this Sultanate is also famous as "Rūm". Some writers also call it "the Turkish Empire".
 
2. A famous city in Italy. Rome is very ancient city. It was capital of western Sultanate of Rūm. The Headman of Roman Catholic Church, Pope lives here. His position is very respectable in Christianity. In Christian Era 1871, Rome was made a capital of current Sultanate of Italy. It's population is 590,560.
 
P.S: my point is that in Persian, Turkish and Arab world Anatolia and Balkans were known as Rūm.


Edited by oxydracae - 01-Mar-2012 at 07:07
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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 07:06
In Arabic turkey is called "Deek Rumi" which means "Roman cock". "Roman" here is referring to the Byzantine empire.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:08
?Arab is this means it was there before Columbus?We are talking about this bird or similar with it.
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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:16
I don't think it literally means the Byzantine empire, just the same area (that is called Turkey today)
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:19
I read in forum about other bird with same name.Misir name means something in Arabic?We call it misir and it also means corn here.
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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:22
"Misir" is Arabic for Egypt
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:29
Does not means nothing in Arabic this word?Egypt produces corn in big quantities?Tell me about some native domestic bird in Egypt&Turkey you have used for food before this one? 
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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:29
The turkey's name usually reflect its supposed origins. In various languages it has been called "Indian bird", "Egyptian bird", "French bird", "Greek bird" etc. It's likely to cause much confusion about its origins.
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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:35

Does not means nothing in Arabic this word?Egypt produces corn in big quantities?Tell me about some native domestic bird in Egypt&Turkey you have used for food before this one?


"Misir" is the Semitic word for Egypt. In Hebrew it's called "Mitzrayim".






May I ask where you are from? I guess corn was first brought to your country from Egypt so it was named after it. I know that in Turkish they call it misir for this reason.

Edited by Arab - 01-Mar-2012 at 08:48
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 08:59
MiSiR=Peaceful readiness sprouts!It is corn,i suppose!Nile's flooding is good for corn.Bird has received it's name according it's favorite food.But if it was in Egypt before Columbus,Egyptians had known about America and trade with it.Smile
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  Quote oxydracae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 10:06
lol turkey bird's identity crisis..
 
via M.Fr. dinde (c.1600, contracted from poulet d'inde, lit. "chicken from India," Mod.Fr. dindon),
^^ I think this term India refers to "New World" and has nothing to do with modern India in South Asia.
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  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 10:40
Originally posted by oxydracae

lol turkey bird's identity crisis..
 
via M.Fr. dinde (c.1600, contracted from poulet d'inde, lit. "chicken from India," Mod.Fr. dindon),
^^ I think this term India refers to "New World" and has nothing to do with modern India in South Asia.


Indeed, in those times they thought America was a part of Asia...So it was technically named after the India in south Asia, erroneously.
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