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Thai why didnt they borrow Chineses sop

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  Quote phoenix_bladen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Thai why didnt they borrow Chineses sop
    Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 12:50

Back in the days almost all countries near China borrowed somewhat from China and was under their influence culturally...... examples korea, japan, vietnam.

Thai's being ethnically mongoloid and migrated from what is todaya south china did not...

why is that?  They ended up borrowing from India.... was there something in India they thought was better?  And why is it for other southeast asian countries (aside from vietnam) like that too ?

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 13:22
Thailand borrowed from China too, just India more..why?  look at a map.  Its next to Burma, a very influenced by India place, also its very buddhist, not confucianist at all.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 14:00

Wasn't Nanchao(Pre-Mongol Tai kingdom) a heavily Chinese influenced Kingdom? What happened when they migrated south?



Edited by .....
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 14:31
Not all of Nan Zhao migrated south, and people in Thai land aren't all from Nan Zhao.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2004 at 12:04

Thai's being ethnically mongoloid and migrated from what is todaya south china did not...

The Thais are indo-chinese a mix of Caucasian and Mongloid. These days they are much more mongloid but in the past they were overwhelmingly caucasian. It reflect India's waining influence on the region and China's growing.

We don't really know where the Thais came from, the china one is only one of several theories.

The north of Thailand especially the Chang Mai kingdon has a lot of Chinese influence and came under Chinese rule for part of it's history.

Finally china spent a lot of it's history, since 15th century, closing itself off to the world. So the Thais couldn't get to the much sought after infuence.



Edited by Paul
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 11:16

Originally posted by phoenix_bladen

Thai's being ethnically mongoloid and migrated from what is todaya south china did not...

Actually, the Tais didn't borrow directly from India. They borrowed from Mons, Khmers, Malays and other inhabitants already in the region who were also ethnically mongoloid.

Originally posted by Paul

We don't really know where the Thais came from, the china one is only one of several theories.

I believe it's in general agreement among scholars that the Tais were originally from Southern China, migrated south to escape the Mongol invasion, settled in what is today Thailand and mixed with the inhabitants already in the region such as Malays, Mons, Viets, Khmers etc.



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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 21:23
Originally posted by .....

[QUOTE=phoenix_bladen]

I believe it's in general agreement among scholars

Isn't "general agreement between scholars" an oxymoron?

"The Emergence of the Thais

The origin of the Thai (or Tai) race is shrouded in mystery. Many theories and hypothesis have been put forward, some more convincing than others.

One theory is that the Thai race immigrated southwards into Southeast Asia from the Altai mountain range in northwestern China-Mongolia. Since archaeological, ethnographic, and linguistic researches do not bear this out, the theory now has few champions. Another unconvincing hypothesis contends that the Thai, having migrated from Sichuan province in central China, founded a kingdom in southern China called Nanchao, from whence they were driven further south by the all-conquering Mongol ruler Kubilai (Kublai Khan) in 1253, into Indochina and present-day Thailand. This theory is not very tenable because Nanchao was not a Thai-dominated kingdom, and it appears too that Thai had immigrated into the area that is now Thailand well before 1253.

A third theory propounds that the Thais were originally of Austronesian, rather than Mongoloid, stock and had migrated northwards from the Malay Archipelago. The most convincing theory, however, is that which relies largely on linguistic evidence. From research done in the southern Chinese provinces of Kwangtung, Kwangsi, and Yunnan, where the Thai language is still spoken, the proponents of this theory maintain that the Thais migrated southward from these provinces.

The fifth, and latest, hypothesis claims that archaeological and anthropological evidence proves that Thailand has been inhabited continuously even since prehistoric times. Ethnic groups mixed with each other until it was difficult to tell them apart. Animism, material culture, and folklore, however, point to continuity in the settlement of this area. This hypothesis has been cogently put forward by its proponents, but it sidesteps too conveniently the issue of Thai migration by maintaining that the Thai have been here all along, the present-day Thai nation being but a mixture of various races.

The controversy over the origin of the Thais shows no sign of abating, and further research is needed before we can draw any definite conclusions. What is beyond dispute, however, is that by the 13th century the Thais had become a force to be reckoned within mainland Southeast Asia, and Thai princes ruled over states as far apart as Lanna, Suphannaphum (Suphanburi), Nakhon Si Thammarat, and Sukhothai."

taken from...

http://www.thaiembassy.se/Thai%20History.htm

Also check out...

http://la.aznet.net/~rmyers/Chapt2.htm

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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 13:59
Paul, could you please explain to me how the Thais were once Caucasian? I have a thick skull.
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  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 15:25

Originally posted by Degredado

Paul, could you please explain to me how the Thais were once Caucasian? I have a thick skull.

               lol.......i was thinking likewise...

                       and i don't think they're mongoloids either...

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 23:16
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 02:16
Originally posted by Degredado

Paul, could you please explain to me how the Thais were once Caucasian? I have a thick skull.


Caucasian as in another word for Caucasoid maybe?
Though he is as good as saying they were mix, so part Indian part whatever probably.


Edited by Cywr
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 21:10

The 1st inhabitants of Thailand migrated there from India so were probably caucazoid. Later major migrants the Mon for instance came were mixed race but a good part caucazoid. The thais we don't know what. And then for the last 1000 years a steady influx of Chinese. So the amount of mongoloid has steadily increased. Some Bangkok Chinese/Thais can look almost Chinese.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 13:41
Originally posted by Paul

The 1st inhabitants of Thailand migrated there from India so were probably caucazoid. Later major migrants the Mon for instance came were mixed race but a good part caucazoid. The thais we don't know what. And then for the last 1000 years a steady influx of Chinese. So the amount of mongoloid has steadily increased. Some Bangkok Chinese/Thais can look almost Chinese.

 

 

Actually, the first inhabitants of Thailand region where a group of people called the "Negritos". They look very similar to southern Africans, tight curly hair, black skin, but they are of short stature. Shorter then the Africans. There are still some Negritos left in Thailand.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 07:26

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Negritos

People still argue wether Australoid is a seperate racial group or a sub group of Caucasoid.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 02:07
I don't think Austroloid is a sub-group of Caucasoids. Austroloids are related to the Aboriginals of Australia, and they are not classified as a sub-group of Caucasoids.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2004 at 21:57

Originally posted by .....

I don't think Austroloid is a sub-group of Caucasoids. Austroloids are related to the Aboriginals of Australia, and they are not classified as a sub-group of Caucasoids.

Well, 19th century racial theory breaks down. When we apply intelligence.

Negrozoid, a clear racial group. Mongoloid everything from the American Indian to the SE Asians, clearly some dispute as to whether they are a single or multiple ethnic group, begs an answers. The Caucasoids := yes the darkest Sri Lankans and the lightest Scandinavians are no different whatsoer but in skin pigmentation. However the Australian Aborigony is more different but still incredibly close to caucasoids too. Are the South sea Islanders a seperate racial group (australoid) or all of them caucasians too. Skin colour isn't a factor when dealing with caucasoids.

Alternatively racial  theory is, the brown stuff that come from the cow behind, and there is only one race -human-.

Personally I like talking about race, but the trouble is.... Even from an untra-commie like me, in any discussion it is difficult to remain unpoluted by ultra rightwing bollocks. Though I do try......



Edited by Paul
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  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 20:03
well put
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  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 20:09
The Tai like their own culture.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 23:40
People still argue wether Australoid is a seperate racial group or a sub group of Caucasoid.


I think initialy they was a tendancy to put them somewhere within the existing framework (Negro/Caucas/Mongol), but eventualy some anthroplogists began to treat them as a seperate group unto themselves.
Geneitlcy Australian aborigines cluster close to people in Indonesia, but on a more old fashioned physical anthroplogical view, appear to cluster closer to certain Caucasoid groups.

The thing with Physical anthropology is that several different classification systems have emerged, most of the main groups have sub groups which can be sort of in two main groups at the same time leading to them being classified differently by different people, mostly for convinience sake.
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  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2005 at 11:07
  hmm....maybe the thais think riding elephants are cooler than riding horses..
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