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Yaomachtia- Mexican martial arts

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  Quote pld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yaomachtia- Mexican martial arts
    Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 15:58

Ive got a theory that i would like to share. Ive been reading all these post about Aztec Martial Arts. First i would like to point out the obvious, Anyone whos says the Aztec never had a martial art is wrong. The Aztecs would train their warriors  in a school called Telpochcalli. Here, they would learn the art of war. So the biggest question is what techniques did the Aztecs teach at these schools?  The only way to possibly come up with how the Aztecs trained their warriors, is to look at all world culutres as a whole. It is not as if the Aztecs were completly off the map from other cultures. I think the biggest connection is the weapons they used to wage war. The BOW and ARROW, the SLING, the ATLATL, and SPEARS. ALL these weapons can be found in other cultures as well. So they techniques used to train warriors with them would be somewhat similar to other cultures. Even the concept of the sword is found in the Macuahuitl more or less.

As far as the hand to hand ( non weapon) combat aspect, it a little harder because a lot of people what to belive that the Aztec's had a system by which they trained hand to hand combat. This aspect of Aztec training we may never know. If you study other mesoamerican culutres and even some Native American culutres, they did engage in some form of wrestling. I dont know if they used this to train for war, but heres what i can speculate. Think about what it would be like on the battlefield, and you have no weapon. How are you going to fight  a man with/or without a weapon. There would probley be a struggle, and the fight would probley go to the ground. They would most likely use what was available to them... their hands,feet,head,elbows,knees, etc to stay alive.  Do i think they my ancestors were running around putting people in crazy submissions holds. No, but i do think they were using what they needed to use when the time came to stay alive.  THey would of used BASIC, almost instictive martial art techinques. Can this have been trained to Aztec warriors? Of course, but i dont think there would of been a heavy concentration on it. They were most likley teaching them how to use their weapons and the values of being a warrior.
 
Conclusion: Anyone looking to revive the Aztec martial art would have a really hard time delveloping a system that they could claim was "actually" taught to Aztec warriors.  I can only offer this advice. Teach the values that were instilled in the Aztec Warrior. Study how other culutres similar to the Aztec trained their warriors to used weapons. As far as the hand to hand ( no weapon) combat training, your going to have to take a leap of faith. I would train in a martial art which concetrated on basic striking/clinch(wrestling)/and very basic submissions. Id advise a martial art such as Pankration, which has a little bit of everything, but realize that the Aztec martial art would of most likely been less structured.
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 19:39

Originally posted by pld

The Aztecs would train their warriors  in a school called Telpochcalli. Here, they would learn the art of war.

Telpochcalli were the elementary schools where small children were taught - part of the Aztec system of compulsory education, but were not truly military in nature - iirc, the only combat they really taught was archery and the atlatl/javelin.

Warriors were trained in the calmecac, which was a school for the sons of nobility and aspiring priests (maybe for pochtecas too?).

As far as the hand to hand ( non weapon) combat aspect, it a little harder because a lot of people what to belive that the Aztec's had a system by which they trained hand to hand combat. This aspect of Aztec training we may never know. If you study other mesoamerican culutres and even some Native American culutres, they did engage in some form of wrestling. I dont know if they used this to train for war

Most weapons training - even in medieval Europe - started off with unarmed combat, moved up to simple weapons like the dagger, and only once all that was mastered, did they start to teach more advanced subjects like the sword or pole weapons. Here's an example from a medieval fechtbuch:

http://www.thehaca.com/pdf/sf20.JPG

I expect that with the Aztecs, it was likely much the same.



Edited by edgewaters - 16-Dec-2008 at 19:40
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 20:02
Originally posted by ITZOCELOTL

what did the Mexicans do when they first saw the spanish riding horses? I know the Mexicans said the horses were large deer without horns but when the spanish were staying in Tenochtitlan with all their horses dont you think a  noble/politician/informer/ or a loyal servant to Moctezuma  would have got curiouse or been sent to learn how to ride a horse? Also after the 1st battle of Tenochtitlan dont you think when the Spanish retreated they would have abandon some horses? did the Mexicans capture them and learn to ride them? or did they just sacrificed them all? I dont think they would have sacrificed them all. Then they could have used the horses against the Spanish-Tlaxcallan army.

As far as we know, they sacrificed them all when they captured them alive.

The Tenochca were, in some senses, very traditional - compared to the rest of the Nahuatl they seem to have been something like religious fanatics, even. It got them into trouble a few times (as when they flayed the daughter of a powerful king in the Valley, soon after they arrived, after which they were supposedly banished to a swampy, muddy island in the middle of Lake Tenochtitlan).

The Texcocoans might have done something like this if they ever had the opportunity to do so, they were more progressive (if that term can be used) and more innovative. But I'm not sure whether or not they ever would have had the opportunity.

Other native groups certainly were quick to adopt the horse, particularly groups on or near the Great Plains or the pampas. Had they the chance, the Inca too intended to not only learn to ride horses, but to capture Spaniards and have them build guns and cannon - this was apparently Atahualpa's intent when he met Pizarro at Cajamarca, but he was a little too overconfident to pull it off!

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  Quote pld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 14:04

... And as far as the unarmed combat aspect goes, I think that it was very possible that the Aztec did something very similar. I was reading something yesterday on the History of Martial Arts. It said that forms of aggression such as wrestling are human and cultural universals.  It also said that as humans progressed we began to use these forms of aggression as a form of mock combat.  As I said before, I think the Aztec martial arts would have been similar to most basic martial arts systems of any other cultures.  If you look at a martial art like Pankration. Jim Arvanitis redeveloped that martial arts system from information that he ( heavily) researched and the moves that had to experiment with. Pankration really is a basic martial arts system that was used to train the Greeks and then it became a sport. It was used to train them because it was a no holds barred system, just like fighting in battle. I hate people who are so critical of people who are trying to revive the system.  We know what weapons they used, and we have a concept of how they used them. We also have a vague idea of what most cultures use as their unarmed combat systems. I don’t think it would be a stretch of the imagination to believe that the Aztecs were very similar if not the same at all. If they is anyone out there interested in researching this topic more in-depth, let me know.

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  Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 03:32
Hmmm. Mexica martial arts?

Well...none that are really known and taught today. However, there are some interesting stories about Mexica--and their northern cousins, the Zacatecas, Guachichiles, caxcanes, etc.--fighting conquistadores.

One was an account by someone known as the "anonymous conqueror" who was supposedly part of the conquest of mexico. He stated that he had seen a Mexican warrior fight against two (may have been three, been a while since I read it) conquistadores, take one of their spears and fight for an hour with it, and only die when a crossbowman shot him in the back.

I imagine it's quite possibly exaggerated some, but theres another story from the chichimeca wars about a warrior against several mounted lancers disarm perhaps two of them and fight for quite a while--with one lance stuck in him.

Bottom line is that there are enough accounts to assume that they were not bad hand-to-hand fighters; probably in some cases good enough to snatch away an enemy's weapons, which is actually quite hard to do. The accounts are probably exaggerated, but the message that the conquistadores thought of them as good fighters is there.
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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  Quote Supertomi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2009 at 16:17
every culture has its own martial art
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  Quote Supertomi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2009 at 16:27
xilam is a rip off
its just kung fu but with mexican animals
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  Quote mcbrewer28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 09:39
The Yaomachtia Aztec Martial Arts is in fact true. Go the following site.
aztecanchientarts.webs.com/Tongue
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2011 at 19:16
Originally posted by Paul

Funnily enough this exactly the subject I've been researching now, I just wrote about it for my website.

The Meso-Americans did make full length swords out of obsidian, chert and flint.

The flint and chert ones would be pretty much unbreakable but far to heavy to weild and just ceremonial.

The obsidian ones would be far too fragile.

A third kind existed that was used in combat and described by the conquistadors where they would insert an obsidian blade in wood 50/50 that way the obsidian would be a lot less fragile.

The first one I made, the rest are archaeological finds.

 

 

 

 

 

 


That's some impressive flint-knapping. The bottom one in particular reminds me of a scaled-up version of the Stone Age handaxe found throughout Europe
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