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Most Significant Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.

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Poll Question: Most Important Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [3.49%]
5 [5.81%]
10 [11.63%]
2 [2.33%]
3 [3.49%]
7 [8.14%]
22 [25.58%]
14 [16.28%]
9 [10.47%]
11 [12.79%]
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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Most Significant Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.
    Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 01:17
Who is ready for another discussion in world history?

What was the most Important Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.?

Overview of Events:
  • The Seljuk Emipre: Political reorganization of SW Asia, decline of Byzantium

  • The Crusades: Renewal of contact between Europe and the Middle East. Influence of the church. The decline of Byzantium.

  • The Mongol Conquest: Near-Global reorganization of political power. Revival of global land trade.

  • The Hundred Years' War: Reorganization of power in Europe

  • Establishment of the Ming Dynasty: Reorganization of power in China and the far east.

  • Rise of the Ottoman Empire: Reorganization of power in SW Asia and nearby areas.

  • Voyages of Columbus: Symbolic beginning of colonization

  • The Italian Rennaissance: Turning point in intellecutal and cultural history of Europe

  • Gutenberg's Printing Press: allowed wide-spread distribution of literature.

  • Another event not listed above.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 03:55
Can you pls. include the fall of Byzantine Empire in the list?  it fell in May 29, 1453. 
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Komnenos View Drop Down
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 11:56
Originally posted by Byzan

Can you pls. include the fall of Byzantine Empire in the list? it fell in May 29, 1453.


I'm sure this is covered by "The rise of the Ottoman Empire".

I can't decide between the "Voyages of Columbus" for obvious reasons, and the introduction of the printing press into Europe by Gutenberg.
The latter made the spread of Luther's reformation possible, which in my humble opinion is the single most important event in the history of ideas after 1000AD. Without the printing press that could produce literature for the masses, the monopoly of the Catholic Church both on content and the distribution of thought, would have been much harder to break. And the breaking up of that monopoly set a process of critical thinking and the implementation of its findings in motion, that starting from the reformation, facilitated most of what we cherish today, freedom of thought, human rights, scientific research, etc.
On second thoughts, it is Gutenberg.
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  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:43
what's about the reformation? the first time the catholic authorities were challenged. the attached building of the late mediavell get first cracks.
but without the invention of pressing it would last probably a bit longer.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:53
I'd say it's a tie between Gutenberg and Columbus
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:54
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten

what's about the reformation? the first time the catholic authorities
were challenged. the attached building of the late mediavell get first
cracks.
but without the invention of pressing it would last probably a bit longer.



It only started in 1517. A bit too late for the poll.
Otherwise you are right.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:54
Reformation started in 1520. 

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:07
Originally posted by Maju

Reformation started in 1520.


I don't want to be too picky here, but the, usually quoted official start of the Lutherian Reformation was on October 31, 1517, when the great man nailed his 95 theses on the Chuch door in Wittenberg, and all hell broke loose after that, as the document was mass printed on Gutenberg's presses and quickly distributed throughout Germany and abroad.
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  Quote sdavidr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:15
I was thinking about The fall of Constantinopla in 1453 that meant the closing of the commercial activities with the Eastern Mediterranean, reason why the European bourgeoisie had to look for new commercial routes towards the west, stimulating therefore the development of the navigation techniques that later would facilitate the great geographic discoveries.

So, one point goes to "Rise of the Ottoman Empire".


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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:21

 1453 was a greatly symbolic year, but the rise of the Ottomans was already assured, the survival of one city wasnt going to make any difference and its fall was in real terms had purely a symbolic impact.

 I'd say Gutenberg, but for pure beauty and achievement it has to be the Renaissance.

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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:32
1453 was a great year. It was also the year that the Hundred Yeras' war ended. But most of it was symbolic.

Most of the discussions have gone toward events near the end of the era. In fact, those events effectively marked the end of the Post-Classical period, going by the notion that the significant events in world history of this period are those that led into the Early modern period (ie. Rennaissance).

In the long run, those events proved to be influential (because they eventually made Europe the most influential region). However, I think that for short-term influence, the Mongol Conquests had the most impact.




Edited by Imperator Invictus
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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:36
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus



  • Voyages of Columbus: Symbolic beginning of colonization

Only to the very ignorant. The discoveries began way before Columbus. The very same can be said of colonialism.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:45

I go for the Renaissance. Give it another century and I'd have said Copernicus. Another one and of course it would have to be the scientific revolution ushered in by Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Leibniz...invidious to pick one name.

I'd take the scientific revolution over the reformation any time because the reformation didn't free anyone from the grip of religious dogmatism, it merely changed who was doing the gripping.

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  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:57
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by ulrich von hutten

what's about the reformation? the first time the catholic authorities
were challenged. the attached building of the late mediavell get first
cracks.
but without the invention of pressing it would last probably a bit longer.



It only started in 1517. A bit too late for the poll.
Otherwise you are right.

uups, of course i'm right ,but sorry i didn't  read very well ? i forget my glasses...

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 15:27
Gave me the idea to a new game. Take some random historical events and processes and establish a causal(or other) connection.
Heres my try.

The rise the Seljuk Emipre forced the Byzantine Emperor Alexios Komnenos to ask the Western Europeans powers to come to his assistance. The resulting Crusades weakened the Byzantine Empire (1204 and all that) to that extent that it couldnt prevent the Rise of the Ottoman Empire, whose beginnings were a direct result of the later destruction of The Seljuk Empire through the The Mongol Conquest. The Conquest of Constantinople in 1453 through the Ottomans, was one of the contributing factors to the emergence of the Renaissance in Italy , and forced the European powers to look for an alternative to the routes to South-Eastern Asia that had previously maintained the contact to India and China, and might have brought the concept of the printing press to Europe that Gutenberg re-invented. This search thus motivated the Voyages of Columbus.
Gutenberg's re-invention made the wider distribution of humanist texts in the Renaissance possible.
The Establishment of the Ming Dynasty was the reaction of the Chinese people against centuries of Mongol rule after The Mongol conquest.

Which was the most important event then? Or is one event not more important than another, as they all are in a causal relationship?

Any idea, how to fit the blooming The Hundred Years War in?




Edited by Komnenos
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 15:48

 Didnt the French promise aid to Constantinople after the war with England was over? I read that somewhere i'm not sure how true that is, if it is true then its a funny coincidence that the 100 years war ended in the same year that Constantinople fell and had it held out longer perhaps help would of come.

 So I suppose you could tie the hundred years war in with crusading, by saying help from the west via the crusading expeditions hadnt slowed the decline of the Byzantine empire. Western Christendom had become near powerless to intervene in during the final years of the Byzantine empire and during the siege of 1453 due to the 100 years war between 2 of western europes great powers England and France.

 EDIT: Also I cant remember which emperor it was, but atleast one visited England to the court of Henry IV and was refused military assistance because he had his own problems with legitimacy and trouble with France. Just more on the wests inability to help and stop the rise of the Ottomans due to wars of their own back home.



Edited by Heraclius
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 20:36
I think Manuel II visited England, and was promised thousands of florins in gold. The money was sent, but promptly embezzled by a Genoese banker and the Byzantines never saw it.
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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 23:11
It was a toss uo for me Bewtween Columbus and the cursades. Thye were both hisstorical in their own way. One opened up a new world. ONe taught us valuble lessons.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 03:41
Originally posted by Komnenos

Gave me the idea to a new game. Take some random historical events and processes and establish a causal(or other) connection.
Heres my try.

The rise the Seljuk Emipre forced the Byzantine Emperor Alexios Komnenos to ask the Western Europeans powers to come to his assistance. The resulting Crusades weakened the Byzantine Empire (1204 and all that) to that extent that it couldnt prevent the Rise of the Ottoman Empire, whose beginnings were a direct result of the later destruction of The Seljuk Empire through the The Mongol Conquest. The Conquest of Constantinople in 1453 through the Ottomans, was one of the contributing factors to the emergence of the Renaissance in Italy , and forced the European powers to look for an alternative to the routes to South-Eastern Asia that had previously maintained the contact to India and China, and might have brought the concept of the printing press to Europe that Gutenberg re-invented. This search thus motivated the Voyages of Columbus.
Gutenberg's re-invention made the wider distribution of humanist texts in the Renaissance possible.
The Establishment of the Ming Dynasty was the reaction of the Chinese people against centuries of Mongol rule after The Mongol conquest.

Which was the most important event then? Or is one event not more important than another, as they all are in a causal relationship?

Any idea, how to fit the blooming The Hundred Years War in?




I think that Iberian colonial enterprises, including not just Colombus' but also Vasco de Gama's travels, were only very indirectly caused by the rise of the Ottoman Empire. In fact they probably were more just a byproduct of local circumstances and Italian Renaissance.

Portugal, which is the starter of these explorations was initially most interested in reaching the gold of the Sudan than the extremely far away Eastern Indies. Spices and silk were surely valuable items but intially that wasn't the plan.

Italian Renaissance surely helped in transoceanic travels by offering an improved theoretical knowledge of the world to Western Europe. Colombus and Magallaes among others are thought to be Italians themselves. Of course traditional Aragonese presence in the Mediterranean and particularly in Italy was important for this knowldege trasmission.

You can also fit here the Hundred Years' war... rather as retardant than anything else: this war kept England and France bussy for long time and probably delayed their incorporation to the colonial advanture, leaving the advantage to the Iberian kingdoms that had already finished their local period of wars long before - Granada and Navarre were just minor exceptions, being surely much more important the war of Castilian succession between Portugal and Aragon.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:09

Originally posted by Constantine XI

I think Manuel II visited England, and was promised thousands of florins in gold. The money was sent, but promptly embezzled by a Genoese banker and the Byzantines never saw it.

There's something reminiscent about that

Like why the EU accounts have been thrown out by the auditors the past ten years and more.

 

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