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The Third empire - who were the two first?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Third empire - who were the two first?
    Posted: 22-Sep-2004 at 12:35

Hi!

I have a really stupid question to ask...

We always thalk about Hitlers third empire.  But who were the to others? 

I would expect the Roman empire to be one of them...

 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2004 at 12:42
1st: Holy Roman Empire (952(IIRC)-1806)
2nd: German Empire 1871-1918
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 14:06
Thank you so much!
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Posts: 434 		  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 17:05
Actually the whole Third Reich thing was nonsense... How can there be an empire without an emperor?
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Posts: 269 		  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 11:50
Doesn't Fuhrer mean something like Emperor? Its just a name anyway.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 12:09
Fhrer means leader
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Posts: 1458 		  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 14:27
It really doesn't matter what you call the country and the leader. There is no law of calling the ruler of an empire an emperor. Even if Hitler would have been the emperor by name, he still would have sucked ass.
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 15:46
Since reich doesn't mean 'empire' but 'realm' it's not much of an issue though...
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Posts: 339 		  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 21:20
The whole idea was based on propaganda for Hitler.  He was a masterful demagogue, who knew how to make the people's fleeting passions flare into his devices for world domination.
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Posts: 434 		  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 01:36
Fuhrer was probablly a copy of Mussolini's Il Duce (The Leader). Hitler copied Mussolini a lot.

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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 08:22

Originally posted by Evildoer

Fuhrer was probablly a copy of Mussolini's Il Duce (The Leader). Hitler copied Mussolini a lot.

Fhrer,Duce,Vojd[stalin]=leader...the need of a leader is the feature of the totaliterian regimes

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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 12:20

Fuhrer was probablly a copy of Mussolini's Il Duce (The Leader). Hitler copied Mussolini a lot.

Actually I thought it was the other way around. Mussolini didn't even have any anti-jewish laws until he went into league with Hitler.
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Posts: 339 		  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 12:45
I tend to agree with Janus here.  Hitler had much more control than Mussolini did, he was the one really in control, not Mussolini.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 15:41

Fhrer means both leader and guide, i think that double-meaning in German gave the title more 'style'...

btw, HRE was't regarded as a German empire, so it was the misconception of Hitler to name it 3. Reich...and technically the "second" empire never ended, from 1971 to 1945 germanys official name was aways German empire.

besides, Reich initialy meant Commonwealth but later became synonimous with empire.
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 15:24

 1971 to 1945

Not to be an ass but 1871 right?

besides, Reich initialy meant Commonwealth but later became synonimous with empire.

What then was the official title of the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Were they also a reich and is that the reason there name is now Ostreich.
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Posts: 339 		  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:16

Well, to the Germans, Oesterreich (Oe in place of o with umlaut), is just the east empire, because they are ethnically and linguistically close to the Germans.  Same way that Frankreich is France.

btw, HRE was't regarded as a German empire, so it was the misconception of Hitler to name it 3. Reich...and technically the "second" empire never ended, from 1971 to 1945 germanys official name was aways German empire.

 

I thought it was referring to Karl der Grosse's Reich (Charlemagne) not HRE?
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:25

yes, 1871 is of course correct...

official name of Austria-Hungary was sterreich-Ungarn, also known as Black and Yellow monarchy or more popular, K.u.K monarchy (K.u.K. stands for Kaiser und Knig (Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary). other names included Danube monarchy or double monarchy.
I'm not exactly sure when the name Austira (sterreich) as we know it today came into existence, but Austria became a duchy in the 13th century and was from then on refered to as Austria/sterreich ever since.

 

kubrat, the HRE is Charlemagne's empire



Edited by Temujin
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Posts: 339 		  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:30

Err... I thought that was Barbarossa?  Around 1155 was when he was crowned emperor?  Karl did capture Rome, but three and a half centuries earlier, in Christmas 800.

Or are they both called HRE? 

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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:58
the HRE begun in 800 AD as you rightly noticed, but with the decline of the Frankish kingdoms the title later even disappeared for a time but was revived by the Eastern Frankish kingdom that became the Teuton kingdom in the 10th century by Otto I the great...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:02
Charlemagne was crowned emperor of the Franconian Empire. Later that empire was split into West-Francia (France), Lorraine, and East-Francia (Germany). At first the leader of Lorraine (Lotharius, hence the German name 'Lothringen') was emperor, but around the year 1000, the East-Franconian/German/HRE king became emperor (I thought it was Otto the Great, but I'm not sure).

EDIT: bah, too late


Edited by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli
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