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How do Muslims view the Baha段 Faith

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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How do Muslims view the Baha段 Faith
    Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 09:01

Hi im wondering what the fellow Muslims knew and viewed about the Baha'i faith. I know hardcore Islamic people in Iran hate us and denounce us but am wondering how it is around the other Islamic cultures and countries.

We don't drink alcohol, no sex before marriage, pray to God, believe in 1 God, believe in all past religions of God (ie., Judaism, Christianity, Islam )we have obligatory prayers etc.

We are not an Islamic sect for those who don't know about the Baha'i Faith, the religion is an independant one and started 150 years ago in Persia, we have >6 million followers world-wide. We believe also in the Oness of God, Equality of Men and Women, Oness of humanity, abolition of racsim, predjudice, Oness of Religion, we have no Clerics like (priest, Imam etc) we believe in Independant investigation of the truth, to name a few.

Any way tell me how your views are, don't feel shy to post your OWN opinions. Thanks

Arpad.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 09:05
I'm not a Muslim and therefore not asked for an opinion.

But in any case, could you give us a bit more info on the Baha'i faith, about it's origin's and history, about it's influences and it's organisation.
Thanks!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 09:30

to answer... komnenos question look at this webpage:

http://www.bahai.org/

got QnA section u can look for some basic answer.. which i am too looking at it now....

 

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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 09:56
thanks for that Cahaya.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 20:44
Originally posted by Arpad

Hi im wondering what the fellow Muslims knew and viewed about the Baha'i faith. I know hardcore Islamic people in Iran hate us and denounce us but am wondering how it is around the other Islamic cultures and countries.

We don't drink alcohol, no sex before marriage, pray to God, believe in 1 God, believe in all past religions of God (ie., Judaism, Christianity, Islam )we have obligatory prayers etc.

We are not an Islamic sect for those who don't know about the Baha'i Faith, the religion is an independant one and started 150 years ago in Persia, we have >6 million followers world-wide. We believe also in the Oness of God, Equality of Men and Women, Oness of humanity, abolition of racsim, predjudice, Oness of Religion, we have no Clerics like (priest, Imam etc) we believe in Independant investigation of the truth, to name a few.

Any way tell me how your views are, don't feel shy to post your OWN opinions. Thanks

Arpad.

 

I have a few Iranian Bahai friends and find them very friendly and outgoing.  All of them do drink alcohol, eat pork, and are relatively the same nature and quality as average Americans. 

I did know that faithful Bahais do not drink Alcohol?  I find that very interesting. 

 I also know an American converto to Bahai faith, she keeps a little pamphlet she gives to anybody who is interested in joining the movement.  I personally think Bahaism is not for me, because my culture, and the way I lived my life would fall contradictory to Bahai teachings.  In Islam, we do not believe in anymore prophets after Muhammad, and we dont believe that Bahullah was the Mehdi either.

I find that the majority of Muslims I knowm even Iranians (who are Muslim), consider Bahaism as a cult, and a religion created by the British and associated with Freemasonry.

I dont find much validity in that because I am ignorant on the teachings of Bahaullah and will not believe anything  until I read it & research it for myself.

From what I have heard about it though, I think one day Bahaism will become a world religion because of its entirely tolerant and lax nature.  It offers a guilt free answer, believe in One God, but also keeps the door open to answers found in other world religions, and lets the person decide his own leanings.  Its very appealing, especially in the United States and Europe where secularism wil fall hand in hand with Bahai teachings.

 

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 23:03
Well what did you expect, most Muslims treat Bahai with contempt and intolerance.
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  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 03:12

Originally posted by PrznKonectoid

Well what did you expect, most Muslims treat Bahai with contempt and intolerance.

Arpad asked for your opinion on Bahaism and not what do you think others think of Bahaii faith. So mind your own business please as no one so far in this thread criticized Bahaism.

Regarding me, I think Bahaism is a cult like many other cults in Christianity and other religions. I just find it odd that they believe in Islam, where a vital and critical element in Islam is to believe that prophet Muhammed is the last messenger, thus closing the door for any doubts and that explains too why in Islam we don't have saints and godly-spirited individuals. I am reading the link provided by Cahaya regarding Bahaism and I'm sure I can find some answers of my earlier questions.



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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 04:58

Yes Cok Gec we believe in Islam and other religions.

Yes Bahai law states alcohol consumption is prohibited.

We do not observe Hijab and Halal food. We are allowed to eat pork etc. Some iranian Bahai's DO however observe halal and do not eat pork but thats just out of habit.

In Islam and the Quran isn't it (correct me if im worng) that after Muhammad no more Prophets like - Noah, Elijah etc prophets who do not bring a holy book and laws etc., but promote religion and religious activity won't come anymore. I forgot the name as referred to in the Quran maybe some of the Muslims here can remember the name given to these prophets.

We also have a holy book which its name is The Kitab'i Aqdas.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 05:32

Excuse me Arpad...

Just wnt to know... well..me too here feel odd.. actually very odd.. (pls.. no hard feeling here) as earlier mentioned by cok gec : I just find it odd that they believe in Islam, where a vital and critical element in Islam is to believe that prophet Muhammed is the last messenger, thus closing the door for any doubts and that explains too why in Islam we don't have saints and godly-spirited individuals...

So far my understanding... Bahaism believes in One God... here I quote some of the stmn frm the website:-

God is the ultimate Reality, Creator of the universe, Whose nature is unknowable and inaccessible to humankind. Such designations as God, Allah, Yahweh, Brahma all refer to the One Divine Being. We learn about God through His Messengers, Who teach and guide humanity

no offend here but are u guy just wnt to put urself in safe position.. to claimed u do believe wht Muslim and other religions followers do have in their faith? if u already believe in this... why must still need to have Bahai?

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 05:41
 

The view of what is suppose to come after Muhammad depends on which sect of Islam you look at.


As for Bahais, Some Muslims view Bahai faith as a cult the same way that some Jews and Christians view Islam as cult. The difference is that Judaism and Christianity are prevalent in countries where there is more tolerance at the present time relative to Islamic states.

 

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  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 06:51

Originally posted by Arpad

In Islam and the Quran isn't it (correct me if im worng) that after Muhammad no more Prophets like - Noah, Elijah etc prophets who do not bring a holy book and laws etc., but promote religion and religious activity won't come anymore. I forgot the name as referred to in the Quran maybe some of the Muslims here can remember the name given to these prophets.

Well, if I understood you correctly, maybe you are saying that Quran states there is no Prophets after Muhammed but there are messengers?

In any case, the Quran states the following verse:

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
(The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:40)

The Quran defines what is a prophet and what is a messenger. A prophet is a messenger who is ordered by God to carry a revelation and new scripture and laws. A messenger is just a person sent by god to confirm previous existing messenger. All prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are prophet.

Therefore, under Islam doctrine, it is clear that no new revelaton will come (new prophet) after prophet Muhammed (PBUH).  So that explains why Muslims don't accept new claims of new revelations such as the Bahaii scripture.

Bahaiis and Shia Muslim differ on the Mahdi's name and a lot of similarities exists there. So, it is clear that Bahaism is closer to Shia Islam than Sunni Islam and that is definitley true especially the nature of the Bahaii's faith founder.

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  Quote oTToMAn_TurK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 08:17

my opinion personnally (as far as i no) the Bahai religion is not much different then Islam.

Islam is the completion of the other two one god religions (jews, christns), and the koran respects the other religions by calling them the people of the book. now if the bahai faith beleives that all of these religions should unite and serve the one perpuse of believing in the ONE God then i would respect them. coz as muslims we also hav a higher respect for the people of the book then the ones who reject faith (as in belief wise, other wise ofcourse i respect them as equal humans).

question for arpad,

personally and religiously, wich one of the three religions do you respect more? u obviously read all the books of god, but as the last book of God, the Koran, do use believe and read about that more or is it more equal.

and also what u think about the prophits moses, jesus, mohammed? how do u view them?

Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 08:58

Thankyou for you replies.

Our belief in Islam is the same as Islams belief in Christianity.

In the Bahai Faith we believe in the Abrahamic cycle, the cycle begun by Abraham, and it was ended with Muhammad, thus he is the seal of the Abrahamic cycle and the last of those prophets. However we believe our Messanger is the begining of a new cycle, Muhammad closed the seal, however our Messanger opened a new one. I must reiterate this is my understanding,,

We DO NOT follow the laws of other religions, by stating we believe in them does not mean we follow them, We have our own Holy book, our own set of laws that we abide by.

Tell me this aswell, if one is Muslim by name, but does not follow his laws, drinks, eats pork etc., how is his state once his physical bocy passes by, and he enters the realm of the spirit? will he go to a 'heaven' as opposed to someone who has no religion, however lives life serving humanity, the betterment of people and generally a very good person of good morales?

Ottoman, In terms of respect we respect all the books and teachings because they are all the same, we believe, the word of God is always the same and can never change.

The physical message might have changed a bit over time, but this was to go with the people of the time, what do you thnk would have happened if Muhammad's teachings was brought upon the people at the time of Moses? They would never be able to comprehend the teachings because they are forward a few thousand years thats why they never blieve in Muhammad, because they cannot compare their teaching and those of Muhammad, it is very different in the eyes of man, however the essence. the spirit of the message is the same as has always been, to know Thee, to Worship him, and acknowledge him. however the laws change slightly as man has always been evolving, you cannot impose laws set for adults on babies, or youngsters can you? they could never comprehend it, also you cannot use the laws from babies and children on adults it would never work. Humans have been evolving from baby, to child to teenager throughout its history, which is the EXACT reason God sends down prophets, to keep humans up to date, so that they don't forget him, so that they do not go out of hand. Do you think humans 1000 years ago would ever imaging what the future would be? it is incomprahendable, they would never imagine whats going on know. thats why it is hard for christians / jews to accept Islam or for Jews to accept Christianity.

I believe in the Validity of the Bible/ Quran because they are the words of God put down for their time. In terms of prophets Muhammad, Christ and Moses i view them as equal (please dont be offended) however view the message of Muhammad as the most valid as Muhammad was the last Prophet befor my own prophet so naturally after my own beliefs i view those of Islam as the most Valid. However as equal with the teaching of Christ and Moses.

And Cahaya i respect your view, and if you think im trying to feel safe, well i respect that to, but know this, i do not feel safe by following a book, or books from God.  I will fear God always, i will especially fear him if i was non-religious and not knowing of him. I have my own religions law and book that i follow, i dot not USE anyother religion but my own regardles of what you think, i have tried to explain that we believe in the validity of the past religions, but if you do not accept that then lets agree to disagree and i 100% recpet your views and respect your religious view.

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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 10:17

I do not fear God {if he exists}.Fear=hatred.I love/would love God {if he exists}.

My personal opinion.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 10:34

As Arpad Stated:

And Cahaya i respect your view, and if you think im trying to feel safe, well i respect that to, but know this, i do not feel safe by following a book, or books from God.  I will fear God always, i will especially fear him if i was non-religious and not knowing of him. I have my own religions law and book that i follow, i dot not USE anyother religion but my own regardles of what you think, i have tried to explain that we believe in the validity of the past religions, but if you do not accept that then lets agree to disagree and i 100% recpet your views and respect your religious view.

Well..I do respect others beliefs and faiths..(especially when lives in a country which consists of multi ethnics and religions)  it's individual choice.. dont get me wrong with my questions previously.. is not i'm criticized ur religion.. i'm curious... this is my first time i heard about it...

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  Quote oTToMAn_TurK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 20:15
Originally posted by katulakatula

I do not fear God {if he exists}.Fear=hatred.I love/would love God {if he exists}.

My personal opinion.

fear does not equal hatred, not always anyway. a person that fears God and his punishments would be mor cautious towards his own actions then someone that doesnt fear God.

imagine you are under captivity. would u rather be dealt with someone that fears God and his punishments or someone that doesnt fear God and doesnt beleive. a man that doesnt fear God could do anything to torture you while the person who knows his being wached and knows that he will be judged at the after life would no his limits when dealing with captives or prisoners.

anyway lets stick to the topic

Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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  Quote oTToMAn_TurK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 20:27
Originally posted by Arpad

Tell me this aswell, if one is Muslim by name, but does not follow his laws, drinks, eats pork etc., how is his state once his physical bocy passes by, and he enters the realm of the spirit? will he go to a 'heaven' as opposed to someone who has no religion, however lives life serving humanity, the betterment of people and generally a very good person of good morales?

well in the koran it says that onli those with faith (iman) shall enter paradise so obviously u wud think taht if someone is muslim by name but doesnt practiseor believe then cannot be seen as a mumin in the eyes of God, even tho he might be seen as a muslim in the eyes of man. while ur comparison to the non-religious man would depend on wether he rejects faith fully. if he believes that there is an all-wise, all-knowing creator out there but didnt know about his religion (islam) or wasnt introduced to it properly and was mislead, misinformed by other corrupted muslim, then he may also be allowed to enter paradise.

but if he rejects faith totally and openly denies Gods existence despite all the miracliuos proof of the universe being controlled, then he may not be allowed to, despite what he has done.

ofcourse, God knows best.

Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 21:13

Katulakatula you have been watching too much Star wars heheh fear = hatred.

If you fear no one in the world, then its up to you, i myself also don't have fear for many things except God. The fear that were referring to is not fear as in you are scared of a spider no. The fear is coming from within you, more like you know the sun is there, but you also fear it because without the sun there would be no life, your fear is respect and love, you love the sun for bringing life, you respect the sun, you know about the sun, but also at any time it can take life. That is the fear im talking about, fear of something so great it is uncomprahendable for us.

Thankyou for that Ottoman, and cahaya thankyou for your reply.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 00:53

why your holy book has an arabic name?

 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 01:14
I know it's of topic but hatred is made up of fear (plus rage, plus psychological/sociological constructs). Yet hate may well not be directed against the feared one(s) precisely because of the fear. Katulakatula is on something.

While fear is a normal emotion, though an unpleasant one, living in fear destroys the soul and self-steem.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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