Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

How do Muslims view the Baha段 Faith

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
fastspawn View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: Singapore
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269
  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How do Muslims view the Baha段 Faith
    Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 23:09
I agree with you that Baha'u'llah was indeed born a Shia Muslim. He states that the Shia Branch of Islam is the true branch of Islam.

And yes some of our teachings are derived from Islam. However, my belief is that all religions come from God, and as such derived from the same source, God.

If that is the meaning of derivation, then yes the Baha'i Faith are like Islam and Christianity, derived from God.

Abdul' Baha is the son of Baha'u'llah, not the brother. Subh-i-Azal, was the half-brother.

Azalis, deny that Baha'u'llah is the Promised One ("Him who God shall make Manifest"). However their branch is small, and dwindling, because no other person has stepped forward to claim he was. And it would be a contradiction to be a Babi and await the Promised One, and yet no Promised One was revealed.

Subh-i-Azal, did not claim the post of head of the Babi's. He was conferred it by the Bab upon Mirza Husayn's (Baha'u'llah) recommendation. (Most of the prominent Babis, the first apostles were matyred, imprisoned )
IT was a titular name, and Mirza Yahya's term saw the degradation of the Babi Faith as they became more politicized.

I don't know how much of this "history" is distorted, after all it was man who wrote the history. But Mirza Yahya was painted as cowardly and easily influenced by his compatriot Muhammed Ali, who secretly seeked to be the new head.

In truth, Baha'u'llah never did have ill-feelings towards Mirza Yahya, despite being the target of his assassination attempts and numerous allegations towards the Shah and Sultan that got the fledgling Baha'i Faith in trouble. It just wasn't in his nature. (Well that is what is written in history, and the only few people to write Baha'i History usually become Baha'is)



In the Kitab-i-Ahd, Baha'u'llah states that his successor Abdul-Baha (Abbas Effendi), his son, was to be the new Head of the Baha'i Faith. He was allowed to interpret his teachings, and his laws, and his word became the authoritative interpretation. In other words, he cannot add any new laws, but can only explain to people what Baha'u'llah's laws mean.

This role of interpreter is very important. Baha'is as I explained earlier, are wary of false interpretation of their teachings, and only successors of the Faith can interpret the laws into canon. All Baha'is can understand the writings differently, but none can press it on another person. That is why we have no clergy.

Shoghi Effendi, his Grandson, was appointed as the Guardian in Abdul-Baha's Will and Testament.
Shoghi Effendi, though, met a lot of opposition especially amongst his own family members. This was because, they as humans, also wanted to have this "status".

Regretably, but probably by Divine Providence (as I shall explain later), they were declared Covenant-Breakers, or excommunicated. This was to protect the Baha'i Faith from schisms that disrupt their unity. (Islam had the same problem with schism)

After the passing of Shoghi Effendi passed away, the Universal House of Justice was formed. The seat of the House resides in haifa. This body, doesn't have the powers of interpretation. But they have the power of creating social laws that are not in contradiction with the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

If the Guardian had issue, there would be a next Guardian. Or it would have passed to the nearest Aghsan, (male-line descendant of Baha'u'llah not a covenant breaker). Instead we today have the station of the Guardian, but no human occupying this position. (and never more, as far as I can tell)

This means that the Universal House of Justice can only refer back to either Shoghi Effendi, Abdul-Baha, or Baha'u'llah for guidance. This means that there will be a future dispensation that will come down with new social laws and teachings. But for now, apparently the laws are enough for the next 1000 years (of which 161 have passed)

(Thus I suppose a simple timeline is Bab-Baha'u'llah-Abdul-Baha-Shoghi Effendi-(post Shoghi, pre UHJ AKA International Baha'i Council)-Universal House of Justice)

All Baha'is have to accede to this line. I am afraid to say that any Baha'i that detracts from this line is most assuredly a covenant-breaker, as can be read from both Wills and Testaments.
Back to Top
輟k ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Aug-2005
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 22:30

Originally posted by fastspawn

I shall relate a "true" story (the point is that some people might or might not accept a story as true or false because they might choose to deny or accept).

Well as you said, it is difficult to use that example as a miracle to other non-believer as much as when I tell a Christian of the miracles given to Prophet Muhammed including breaking water out of sand between his fingers..etc

That is why I asked for miracles in his book or later proved to miracle because those stands as witness of the faith and hardly disputable. For example, Quran's scientific miracles are hardly disputed and easy to use in examples. Anything similar to this?

Originally posted by fastspawn

Cok Gec, I don't  know whether I came on to strong in my last post, I hope I didn't because I tend to sound more gruff than what I hope or wish for when posting.

Your previous post was perfectly fine with a polite tone. I have no problems with the two posts you posted earlier. Thank you for the link, I am able to access it. I had more questions in respond to your posts however, I will postpone them after I finished venturing in your link as I might find the answers already there.

Regarding your question why do I think that Bahaism is a derivative of Shiah doctorine, it is the same situation with Christ and Judaism. Initially Baha'ullah is a Shiah believer. Because of that, he draws to his new belief of Bahaism the concept of Imam Mehdi, which is a critical issue for Shiah. Bahaullah declared himself as the Mehdi (suprisingly also as the Christ). Also Bahai faith originated from Babism of Mirza Ali Muhammad proclaimed himself to be the Bab (Gate), "the forerunner of one greater than himself. But as the movement spread throughout much of Iran and Iraq, and especially after the Bab formally declared that Babism was a new religion he was subjected to the growing confrontations by the other Shiite 'ulamas which will lead violence and finally his execution by firing squad in 1850. Mirza Yahya Subh-i-Azal  or Baha'ullah's half-brother- claimed the leadership of the Babis, with its effective leadership in reorganizing the community. Husayn Ali Nur or Baha'allah aroused as a prominent figure among the Babi community. Especially his time in prison in 1852 at Tehran, Baha'ullah was not just a successor anymore, but the holder of the claim of a new prophetic mission which is the Bahai movement.

In Bahaullah's will (Kitab 'ahdi), Bahaullah appointed his brother Abdul Baha as his successor and the leader of the Bahai faith. Notice that the significant development in that period was that the spread of the Faith to North America in 1894 by the efforts of Ibrahim Kheiralla. This Western expansion spread from Northern America to Europe and Australia. Soon there was a flow of American and European pilgrims coming to Akka in 1898.
This Western expansion has significant consequences on the independence of the Faith. As a consequence of the efforts the Bahai Faith was introduced to the peoples from different backgrounds than the previous believers and converts. Though limited in scale, with a diverse background of the new believers, Bahai Faith was no longer confined to a Muslim milieu, but rather an international framework.
These developments also lead the change in the interpretation of the Bahai teachings. In that process of reformulation, although preserving the general Shiite understanding and conceptualization, new formulations of the Bahai teachings were developed in terms of Christian terminology. Abdul Baha himself, dealt with the reformulation in religious and philosophical themes.

Therefore, most scholars will agree that Bahai faith started as a derivative of Shiite Islam and slowly emerged out by Abdul Baha and his successor Effendi (though I believe most Bahai end the line with Abdul Baha).

Regarding my other questions, I am looking for their answers on links you provided. Thank you.

 



Edited by 輟k ge
D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
Back to Top
fastspawn View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: Singapore
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269
  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 21:38
I haven't a clue why i can't edit my post, so forgive me for putting in a new post so rapidly.

Cok Gec, I don'http://www.allempires.com/t know whether I came on to strong in my last post, I hope I didn't because I tend to sound more gruff than what I hope or wish for when posting.

Anyway on miracles.
I shall relate a "true" story (the point is that some people might or might not accept a story as true or false because they might choose to deny or accept).

Baha'u'llah was asked by the Muslim clergy to stand trial, and answer some serious questions about the validity of the Baha'i Faith as interpreted from the Koran. Baha'u'llah proceeded to answer all their questions fully and without pause.

The next day (or few days I can't exactly remember), the clergy asked him to perform a miracle before the crowd.
Baha'u'llah answered back that (paraphrasing)
Who were they to question God? And to ask Him to perform miracles? Yet God as a mercy on His part, has accepted to performing of a miracle, on the condition that the clergy unequivocably accepted the message of Baha'u'llah on its completion{end paraphrase)
The Clergy baulked, and requested one day to think over it.
The next day they gave various excuses like the fact that miracles do not prove the validity of a prophet (which is true).

As a conclusion, this story is just a painting of why we do not place much emphasis on miracles, although there have been miracles within the Babi and Baha'i Faith.

Here are some links to the concept of miracles.
(You might not be able to access it if you are from Saudi Arabia, i am not sure)
http://bahai-library.com/books/miracles/bahai.html
Back to Top
fastspawn View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: Singapore
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269
  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 21:17
Thank you for the reply cok gec.

It is more of that Bahaism itself especially the one Baha'ullah established is clearly a derivative of the Shiah branch of Islam.


How is Baha'i Faith, clearly a derivative of the Shia Branch of Islam? Because our teachings encompasses Love and Brotherhood? Yes in that aspect we are the same.

I believe that all religions come down with the same spiritual teachings, that of love, unity and brotherhood. It is just that the social teachings for the age changes with the ability of humanity to understand concepts and question intellectually certain practices. (e.g. Role of Prayer, Role of Fasting, Meaning of Hygienic Practices)

The practices that a religion acquires over time, is not what forms the religion. Rather it is the teachings. The Baha'i Faith does not have many rituals and dogmas that we seek to impose on ourselves or others. I am sure due to the role of man in religion it will acquire certain practises not attributed to Baha'u'llah.

It is due to the weaknesses of man that religion devolves into a dogma or extremism, and that is when a new Messenger of God will enter the picture to "make the crooked straight". As we had seen with Moses, and Christ and Mohammed. (One of the things i noticed is that Baha'is tend to overemphasis that we are from the Abrahamic Branch of Religion, This is not entirely true, we are not from the Abrahamic Branch, we are a completely new cycle that unites both Abrahamic and Vedic Branches to form a new age. I have to read up more though as I do not know all the reasonings)

So since Baha'ullah did not bring a book of philosophy or mediation but rather a whole new religion, my question will be, how can we verify Baha'ullah or me who will write a book are truly messengers?


Yes there will be new messengers. He does warn against false prophets though, and the only shield we have against them is that we "know" the cycle will last a thousand years. Other than that, i have to paraphrase, is that the "Word Of God" is heard from the heart. Our mind's eyes must be open and not closed to dogma of generations past.
And sure enough, he does say that the new messenger will be rejected by a majority of humanity at first.
He brought a book, nay, he brought over a hundred volumes of books.

Remember that believing in a philosophy is different than believing in a religion. A philosophy is the product of human whereas religion is the product of God.


Yup, of course. And the Baha'i Faith is not a "philosophy" as per defination.

Thank you, for listening to me.
Back to Top
輟k ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Aug-2005
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 20:51

Originally posted by fastspawn

But still how does being born a Shia, mean that the Baha'i Faith is a branch of Shia Islam? The Baha'is declare themselves as a true, independant religion, that should by itself mean that it is no longer a brance.

Otherwise, we can declare Christianity a branch of Orthodox Judaism.

Well, it is not that Baha'ullah was a Shia thus, the religion he brought is a branch of Shiah Islam. It is more of that Bahaism itself especially the one Baha'ullah established is clearly a derivative of the Shiah branch of Islam.

Note that Jesus described himself as a Jew sent to the "lost sheeps of Israel" so actually you can say that his message was not distincitve to Orthodox Judaism initially. It only became distinctive with time as his disciples and "holy spirited" saints added rituals to Christianity making it distinctive, including Christmass, Baptizing, Sunday mass, and the bible itself.  Bahaism has a similar process too.

Anyhow, going back to the point that validate Baha'ullah as a messenger, If Bahau'allah thought that he can be a messenger with a new message, I guess he opened the door for new  messengers. I can set down today and start writing a book and will call it a new religion. So since Baha'ullah did not bring a book of philosophy or mediation but rather a whole new religion, my question will be, how can we verify Baha'ullah or me who will write a book are truly messengers? In a different way, does he present a miracle or his book contains future miracles that came true?

Remember that believing in a philosophy is different than believing in a religion. A philosophy is the product of human whereas religion is the product of God.



Edited by 輟k ge
D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
Back to Top
fastspawn View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: Singapore
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269
  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 20:33
Forgive me for posting out of turn, as I am a Baha'i and not a Muslim.

Just needed to add my 2-bits.

Nabih, Rasul (I believe some of the friends here were looking for the terms to describe the distinctiong between Messengers and Prophets)

Yes Muhammed is the Seal of the Prophets(Khatam'un Nabi-een). The term Khatam is used in the Quran. If you know, Khatam is used to mean seal as in ornament. The more commonly used term Khatim meaning final or last is not used. The question has never been throroughly debated though. And i shan't because i do not feel i am qualified enough

In the Baha'i Faith, we believe that the Word of God is so powerful, that every sentence has many meanings. (either 5000 or 50000, i am not a scholar of the Baha'i writings, so i cannot remember. This is of course maybe figurative but the essence of the statement is that Man interprets the Word of God as he wills, and will tend to dismiss all other interpretations).
Of course I can see that the same can be applied for all us.

I will just post a link to some reasons behind Seal of the Prophets (not official). Do take time to read it if you will

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/seal.htm

To azimuth, yes in a sense, Baha'u'llah was born a Shia Muslim, and declares that Shia Islam was the true branch of descent from True Islam, not Sunni, or other branches.

But still how does being born a Shia, mean that the Baha'i Faith is a branch of Shia Islam? The Baha'is declare themselves as a true, independant religion, that should by itself mean that it is no longer a brance.

Otherwise, we can declare Christianity a branch of Orthodox Judaism.
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 21:17

 

from that is even clearer that it is somehow a branch of Shia Islam. at least at their beginings.

 

Back to Top
Arpad View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 01-Sep-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 255
  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 20:45
In the 1830's in Persia, Siyyid K痙im of Rasht was the leader of the Shaykhis, a sect of Shiite Islam. The Shayhkis were expecting the eminent appearance of the Q'im of the House of Muhammad, also called the Mahdi.

At Siyyid K痙im's death in 1843, he had counselled his followers to leave their homes to seek the Lord of the Age whose advent would soon break on the world. One of these followers called Mull Husayn travelled to Shiraz.

On his arrival on May 23, 1844, Mull Husayn was approached by a young man wearing a green turban (an indication that the wearer was a descendent of the Prophet Muhammad). The stranger, the B畸, invited Mull Husayn to his home. After being asked by the B畸 of what he was doing in Shiraz, Mulla Husayn replied that he was searching for the Promised One. The B畸 then asked how would the Promised One be recognized, to which Mulla Husayn replied "He is of a pure lineage, is of illustrious descent, is endowed with innate knowledge and is free from bodily deficiency". To the shock of Mulla Husayn, the B畸 declared "Behold, all these signs are manifest in me.".

Mull Husayn had one more sign by which to identify the Promised One. He had been told by Siyyid K痙im that the Promised One would write a commentary on the Surah of Joseph (a chapter in the Qur'an) without being asked. The B畸 fulfilled this requirement as well, writing the commentary after making his declaration. The B畸 then declared 前 Thou who art the first to believe in Me! and took the title the B畸.

Mull Husayn became the B畸's first disciple. Within a very short time, seventeen other disciples of Siyyid K痙im had independently recognized the B畸 as a Manifestation of God, among them was one woman, a poetess, who later received the name of T疉irih (the Pure). These eighteen disciples were later to be known as the Letters of the Living

To these first eighteen disciples the B畸 gave the task of spreading the new Faith throughout the land.

 

Thats in short the proofs that we follow.

 

Back to Top
PrznKonectoid View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 27-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186
  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 18:26
Originally posted by Maziar

 Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Yes Maziar, respect is the ultimate method of control. If I am beaten I may fear you, but when you turn ur back I wont hesitate to stab you.

True that punishment is needed in a society but only to let people see what they have done wrong, not to for the enjoyment of punishing them.

But I dont think Maziar was talking about Killers and Rapists.

Also a God who loves killing and punishment, as in the old testament is detrimental to a society. 

Want to know more on ancient Iran?
http://www.parsaworld.com
or join our forums
FORUM
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 17:01
Originally posted by Arpad

Hi im wondering what the fellow Muslims knew and viewed about the Baha'i faith. I know hardcore Islamic people in Iran hate us and denounce us but am wondering how it is around the other Islamic cultures and countries.

We don't drink alcohol, no sex before marriage, pray to God, believe in 1 God, believe in all past religions of God (ie., Judaism, Christianity, Islam )we have obligatory prayers etc.

We are not an Islamic sect for those who don't know about the Baha'i Faith, the religion is an independant one and started 150 years ago in Persia, we have >6 million followers world-wide. We believe also in the Oness of God, Equality of Men and Women, Oness of humanity, abolition of racsim, predjudice, Oness of Religion, we have no Clerics like (priest, Imam etc) we believe in Independant investigation of the truth, to name a few.

Any way tell me how your views are, don't feel shy to post your OWN opinions. Thanks

Arpad.

In the West, it appears to many that "hardcore Islamic people" hate everyone and everything not "Islamic."  Which is why Islam has such a bad press in the West.  It often appears not as a religion, but as an ideology that glorifies not dying for the faith, but killing for it.

Some interesting comments in this thread. 

 

 

Back to Top
輟k ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Aug-2005
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 16:39
Originally posted by Maziar

 Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Sure. Find me a parent who never ever got angry and never ever punished their kids.

I personally never seen that and punishment does not have to be physical. It is something common sense that we have punishing results for your wrong work. Punishment is a part of the educational system actually, which is from receiving F for your low performance in class, being asked to stay in your room for the night by your parent, cut in your monthly salary by your employee, fines of speeding, all the way to prison and execution. That is realism, however, if you believe in managing human beings with no punishment, i respect your ultra-idealistic belief.



Edited by 輟k ge
D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
Back to Top
PrznKonectoid View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 27-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186
  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 16:06
Originally posted by Degredado

Originally posted by Arpad

After Muhammad, sciences, maths al theses exelled, the world became a new place, Europe gradually went out of the dark ages,

I many times wonder if Mohammed had anything to do with it, considering that Persia, Egypt, Syria, etc., were already civilized regions before he was even born. 

Indeed, much of this mathematics were already present in Egypt, Persian, Babylon, and India.

The Islamic empire just conglomerated it in their learning centers in Baghdad. At first the attitude was fairly open to philosophy, math, and the fine arts.

But gradually acceptance disappeared and rulers became more and more strict. It was a shame too, just as Europe was increasing their tolerance of the arts and went full force into their renaissance.

Want to know more on ancient Iran?
http://www.parsaworld.com
or join our forums
FORUM
Back to Top
Degredado View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Portugal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 366
  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 15:56

Originally posted by Arpad

After Muhammad, sciences, maths al theses exelled, the world became a new place, Europe gradually went out of the dark ages,

I many times wonder if Mohammed had anything to do with it, considering that Persia, Egypt, Syria, etc., were already civilized regions before he was even born. 



Edited by Degredado
Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas
Back to Top
Maziar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Arteshbod

Joined: 06-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1155
  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 15:21

Originally posted by 輟k ge

Well Maju, God is loving and all love, but at the same time, God gets angry. I love my father, but it doesn't mean I don't fear his anger and sometimes his punishment for my bad deeds. This is a very typical human nature and it is automatically proven since you are child too. Your parents excercise giving you love but warning you of their anger and punishment too.

Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Originally posted by Maju

I've never thought that a divinity would experience emotions as we do but, anyhow, these are his emotions: it is he who should learn to manage them. All I can do is to listen friendly and maybe consolate him but I can't take up the guilt for his emotionality. My father never achieved anything by means of being agressive or punitive, but he achieved a lot by means of being possitive and cooperative.

 

 

 

Back to Top
輟k ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Aug-2005
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 13:03

Originally posted by Maju

I've never thought that a divinity would experience emotions as we do but, anyhow, these are his emotions: it is he who should learn to manage them. All I can do is to listen friendly and maybe consolate him but I can't take up the guilt for his emotionality. My father never achieved anything by means of being agressive or punitive, but he achieved a lot by means of being possitive and cooperative.

And who said emotions are the creation of human being and only the copyright of humen? God feels anger and happiness but in his way. We could have been created us just like Bacteria. In religion theology, our creation came as part of God and he gave us whatever privilage we were given from brain, emotion express...etc

If we have a God who is solid, does not feel love to us, happiness for our good, and anger for our atrocities, I guess then you have a piece of stone there and not God.

"it is he who should learn to manage them", If God has no control over his expressions, he could have just commanded one single command and we all have vanished. Forever. and save him the trouble.

God feels angry as your dad feel angry on you when you do stupid thing. Don't tell me your dad had no emotions and didn't concern about you at all. 

D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 04:48

the Quran specified who are the people of the Book and they are the Jews and the Christance.

nothing in the Quran about Bahai faith nor their books or prophet.

as i said earlier that the founder of Bahai thought of himself as the "Mahdi" which is described by the prophet mohammed.

Muslims are ordered to follow the Mahdi, obviously majority of Muslim dont think that Bahaullah is the Mahdi. i guess his description didnt fit the description the prophet mentioned.

and its clear that Bahai came from Islamic Background which also recognise Judaisim and Christianity.

also its been many occasions through history were some people claimed to Al Mahdi, and got themselvs killed.

starting with Abu Musaylamah who after the prophet's death claimed to be a Prophet himself and was killed by the Army sent by the first Caliph Abu Baker.

also a woman called "Sajah" claimed to be a prophet too and then took it back and became a normal muslim.

 

Back to Top
PrznKonectoid View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 27-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186
  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 02:06
Originally posted by 輟k ge

Read the instructions and questions asked by the person who created the topic

Ok, for sure. Your always 100% correct 輟k ge, always.

In any circumstance Bahai faith is one which is little understood by most. My views are that Bahai deserves a place in this world with respect. I dont know why it is not considered "people of the book" as I see it they follow the general monothiestic principles of Abrahamic religions.

Want to know more on ancient Iran?
http://www.parsaworld.com
or join our forums
FORUM
Back to Top
輟k ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Aug-2005
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 01:54

Originally posted by PrznKonectoid

Read the topic name please.

Read the instructions and questions asked by the person who created the topic

D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
Back to Top
PrznKonectoid View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 27-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186
  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 00:28
Originally posted by 輟k ge

Originally posted by PrznKonectoid

Well what did you expect, most Muslims treat Bahai with contempt and intolerance.

Arpad asked for your opinion on Bahaism and not what do you think others think of Bahaii faith. So mind your own business please as no one so far in this thread criticized Bahaism.

Regarding me, I think Bahaism is a cult like many other cults in Christianity and other religions. I just find it odd that they believe in Islam, where a vital and critical element in Islam is to believe that prophet Muhammed is the last messenger, thus closing the door for any doubts and that explains too why in Islam we don't have saints and godly-spirited individuals. I am reading the link provided by Cahaya regarding Bahaism and I'm sure I can find some answers of my earlier questions.

 

Read the topic name please.

Want to know more on ancient Iran?
http://www.parsaworld.com
or join our forums
FORUM
Back to Top
PrznKonectoid View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 27-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186
  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 00:25

Originally posted by Maju

I know it's of topic but hatred is made up of fear (plus rage, plus psychological/sociological constructs). Yet hate may well not be directed against the feared one(s) precisely because of the fear. Katulakatula is on something.

While fear is a normal emotion, though an unpleasant one, living in fear destroys the soul and self-steem.

Its quite simple. Religion uses hate to utilizes hate to galvinize the population to its cause.



Edited by PrznKonectoid
Want to know more on ancient Iran?
http://www.parsaworld.com
or join our forums
FORUM
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.079 seconds.