Crimes of Crusaders

realy, how many albanians you have, and how many of them is muslim?

And tell me how many you have at kosova and macedonia, I heard they were more religious than you.

For Albania, you know She have good relation with Turkey.

Well, reality,world is not like what you want to see. It is also real for me too.

I think you are confusing me with someone else, I just learned that today, so no way I posted that exact same article earlier

Originally posted by Phallanx �ok ge� Noone denies the contribution of the Islamic world to 'evolution'. I do recall you posting this exact article in a different topic some time ago but some of these claims have absolutely no connection to reality... Just one example: What is Taught: Glass mirrors were first produced in 1291 in Venice. What Should be Taught: Glass mirrors were in use in Islamic Spain as early as the 11th century. The Venetians learned of the art of fine glass production from Syrian artisans during the 9th and 10th centuries. This is obviously an intentional distortion of the real facts by the author... All we need to do is look at Pliny's Natural History 36.66: " Sidon was formerly famous for its glass-houses, for it was this place that first invented mirrors." Which means since the 1st cent. not the 11th.

1. "No historical student of the culture of Western Europe can ever reconstruct for himself the intellectual values of the later Middle Ages unless he possesses a vivid awareness of Islam looming in the background." (Pierce Butler, "Fifteenth Century of Arabic Authors in Latin Translation, in the McDonald Presentation Volume; Freeport, N.Y., 1933; p.63)

2. "The Arab has left his intellectual impress on Europe, as, before long, Christendom will have to confess; he has indelibly written it on the heavens, as anyone may see who reads the names of the stars on a common celestial globe." (John W. Draper, History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, Harper & Row; Vol.2, 1876 & 1904; p.42)

3. "Because Europe was reacting against Islam it belittled the influence of Saracens [Muslims] and exaggerated its dependence on its Greek and Roman heritage. So today an important task for us is to correct this false emphasis and to acknowledge fully our debt to the Arab and Islamic world" (W. Montgomery Watt, Islamic Surveys: The Influence of Islam on Medieval Europe; Edinburgh, England; 1972; p.84).

4. "One of the hallmarks of civilized man is knowledge of the past - [including]the past of others with whom one's own culture has had repeated and fruitful contact; or the past of any group that has contributed to the ascent of man. The Arabs fit profoundly into both of the latter two categories. But in the West the Arabs are not well known. Victims of ignorance as well as misinformation, they and their culture have often been stigmatized from afar" (John Hayes, The Genius of Arab Civilization: Source of Renaissance; MIT Press, 1983; p. 2)

5. "Too often science in Arabia has been seen as nothing more than a holding operation. The area has been viewed as a giant storehouse for previously discovered scientific results, keeping them until they could be passed on for use in the West. But this is, of course, a travesty of the truth. Certainly the Arabs did inherit Greek science - and some Indian and Chinese science too, for that matter - and later passed it on to the West. But this is far from being all they did" (Colin Ronan, Science: Its History and Development Among World's Cultures; New York; 1982; p.203).

6. An eminent mid-20th century scholar, George Sarton (Harvard Univ.), traces the "roots" of Western intellectual development to the Arab tradition, which was "the outstanding stream, and remained until 14th century one of the largest streams of medieval thought." Further, "The Arabs were standing on the shoulders of their Greek forerunners, just as the Americans are standing on the shoulders of their European ones. There is nothing wrong in that." Then Sarton criticizes those who "will glibly say `The Arabs simply translated Greek writings, they were industrious imitators...' This is not absolutely untrue, but is such a small part of the truth, that when it is allowed to stand alone, it is worse than a lie" (George Sarton, A Guide to the History of Science; Mass.; 1952; pp.27-28).

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The well-known early 12th century Englishman, Adelard of Bath, often proudly acknowledged his debt to the Arabs - "trained (as he says) by Arab scientists....I was taught by my Arab masters to be led only by reason, whereas you were taught to follow the halter of the captured image of ancient authority [i.e., authority of the Church]" (Tina Stiefel, The Intellectual Revolution in Twelfth Century Europe; St. Martin's Press, N.Y., 1989; pp.71, 80).

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Books on science translated from Arabic

Is this suppose to be a joke? I asked earlier for your reference of those quotes of Michael Kritovoulos about massacring the inhabitants of Constantinepole by the Ottomans, and you provide me with a book of Albanian struggle for independance?

Anyhow, I lost my interest. If you have no resources for that, it is fine. Afterall, even if we discovered where the hell you got those quotes from, it won't matter.  Why should I even quote a historian who is paid for writing a biography of his sultan as Michael Kritovoulos. I just pray that when i get to the library to flip this book and look for Michael Kritovoulos I will find something, otherwise, you're credibility is in big trouble!

Scanderbeg

Harry Hodgkinson                     Centre for Albanian Studies            ISBN 9 781903 616154

This is the first biography of the Albanian national hero Scanderbeg in modern times. It covers his early life and how he brought together the disparate Albanian groupings into an army which resisted the Ottoman empire when it was arguably at its strongest. This is a wonderfully written history of a fascinating, charismatic leader. Highly recommended.

No need to get mad. Though Im still heading to the library to uncover the mistery of your quotes. Ta Ta taaaa (we need a background music that can be attached to posts)

The mongols today worship GenggisKhan as a founding father of their nations, whether be them in Mongolia or in Inner Mongolia of China. In China, Mongolians have his pictures in their yurts, my Mongolian classmate even hang the pic of GengghisKhan in the dormitory.

While in history and to most of the conquered ppls Mongols and GengghiaKhan are no heros to them, since he and his horde bring only death and destrution, think about it, would you cheer it if you own nation was invaded and suffered under foreign or alien forces, no one will.As a Han Chinese with great appreciation for ancient heros who resisted the "Barbarians" i would definitely fight to the last drop of my blood against the Mongols led by GengghisKhan no matter how strong they are, because as old Chinese says, "it is ones responsbility to serve the country when it faces danger",  also " to fight the enemy in battlefield, if only you dead body returns, it is a honor!" i personally cheer these ideas.

This feeling so strong at a point, i once had a deam, in which im fighting a Mongol army led by him, but i lost. This is not history but merely a dream, i would have manipulate it to my favor, win the wars against them, isn it a perfect chance to "revenge" the Mongols? No, the dream only expose my attitute towards the Mongols, on one side, i must fight, its what a Han should do, to protect my country and ppl, and its beautiful culture. But on the other side, though i do not fear strong enemies, but i know they are just brave and determined like i am. And Gengghiskhan is a great man with great ability and will, i respect his valor and power, for those who joined him not a single one betrayed him, and at the time it is said there were 3 most talented Chinese, who possess them then who can rule the earth under heaven, they are a sinicized Khitan YueLuChuCai , a Daoist master QiuChuji, and a decendant of a famous Tang general named GuoZiYi. Surprisingly, those 3 all "Joined" Gengghiskhan's service, Guo as a general in the Mongol army who led successful campaigns in middle east and beyond, Qiu is greatly favored by Gengghis for Daoist teaching, and most significant of all, YueLuChuCai after strong resist to Gengghis savage loots of Beijing, joined him as his great adviser, later Gengghis would appoint him to his third son WuoKuoTaiKhan, and heir to the Mongol empire his great state counsellor, and YueLuChuCai had a famous saying to the Mongols about how to govern the country" Use confucianism to govern the country, use buddhism to conquer the hearts of  ppl", this governing doctrine laterly greatly affected KubilaiKhan, even to a degree that many Mongols consider him too " Chinese".

Gengghis has qualities one must appreciate, for thats probably why those 3 ablest Chinese joined his course.If they didnt join and advice to him, perhaps his grandson Kubilaikhan would just loot the Southern Song capital LinAn(presentday HangZhou)just  like the way they did to ZhongDu(Beijing), but Mongol itself has changed so much. The savagery were because of their lifestyle and their backward nomadic society, which largely illiterate as well as uncivilized. But once they had their savage power release on the civilized culture they inevitable will be affected by more mature cultures, even their basic lifestyle would not change much, but their leaders now have to consider it since the rule over  not only grasslands now but vast empire with so many advanced cultural achivements.And thats no wonder why so called barbarians once ruled China or parts of China with their military success had many examples at different occasions expressed their like of Han Chinese culture and to a degree dislike of their own nomadic way of life. Famous example would be XianBei's WeiXiaoWenDi, named toba-hong(later sinicized to YuanHong), he was a confucianism advocate, once he said to his fellow nomads who as well as his "Enemy" the Hans," once one is learned and he appreciate the power of knowledge, then the so called "Barbarian" can be as civilized as the others too"

WeiXiaoWenDi though is a XianBei(He's got atleast half Han blood though, but to we Chinese we emphasize culture more than blood, as if i trace my ancient origins i may related to the DongYi and Qiang, which were considered barbarian by the central plain ppl), hes great historic contribution to China is as important as QingShiHuangDi's first unification of China into Qin Dynasty.

And my attitude towards the Crusaders are the same, but with the only difference is that im not a Muslim.