Crimes of Crusaders

It wasnt just an Islamic Empire. It was a multiethnical empire, just the Islamic form of Eastern Roman Empire.

So what? Did you expect Ottomans also to recognize universal human rights? It was for every empire and conquerer in history, if we had even a single Albanian found empire in history, I bet they woul be more tolerant or peaceful.

In fact, the devshirme system was a heaven for Albanians, a gift of Ottomans. First of all, the children were chosen out of talented sons of uneducated villager families with more than one son. Their sons were ducated and became viziers instead of mountain shepherds. Actually the families were pleased with one of their sons being devshirme...

Sheriah law wasnt obligated for non-Muslims and non-Sunites. Of course they didnt let Muslims to be converted into christianity, do you think a Muslim had any reason to be converted? Ot Ottomans should just ignore Albanian missionaries with their conversion crusaders?

Soldierized non-Muslims? NonMuslims except Janissaries (noe: Janissaries were choosen from every 40 families, and Rums, Armenians, Assyrians, Russians, Georgians werent taken into the ocak.) werent soldierized. In fact Muslims were fighting behalf of them. When Muslims were fighting in battlesides, the nonMuslims, who werent obligated with military misson were busy with trading and getting richer. That's why Rums and Armenians were holding most of the Ottoman economy and trading in their hands until it collapsed.

I wish the Ottomans werent that tolerant. Sometimes overtolerance creates indulged generations and tragedic betrayels. I wonder what would the Albanian tribes contribute to our world if they werent discovered by the Ottoman tolerance...

lol. Europeans conquered whole two continents, Southern and Northern America. Tell me the name of a single country in these lands whose mother language is still Native American and who are still original American pagans? Why is Latin America called Latin but Balkans arent called "Turkic Europe"? Why dont you speak Turkish today but a Peru citizen speaks Spanish?

Tell me how much people knows Arabic in Spain after the arab conquest, and tell me how much Algerians know French after the French invasions?

Why arent there any Seferad Jews or Muslims left in Spain? why did the Muslims who could survive from the European massacres after the Balkan wars had to return to Turkey? But there were still lots of Christians living in the Turkish motherland, anatolia, living together with Turks until the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (dont get into the Armenian issue, I am talking about the times before it)? Yes, Ottomans were conquerers in Balkans, but what kind of difference did they have from Romans?

Double standards, are what shaping your ideas and I guess education procedures. But I am familiar with it, that's the masterpiece of some European media who still calls the Ottoman Empire as "Ottoman Muslims" or Ottoman Turks...

They didnt. Non-Muslims were more benefical for the taxes. Also, converting them wouldnt rovide anything to the empire. Orthodox were happy with Ottoman rule until the collapsing periods. Then, with the Tanzimat and Islahat (with more tolerat laws), they rebelled. You see? Ottomans did a big mistake, it was called overtolerance.

Would Albanians be Christians if the Romans didnt conquer their lands?

1. Seljuks were much more civilised than Frank shepherd soldiers believing they'd get rid of their sins by taking as much Muslim heads as they could. When those wild Central Asians were studying maths and astronomy, the "civilised" westerners were massacring the whole population of Jarusalem.

And these show your lack of knowledge. Abbasid caliph himself appointed and wanted help of Turghrul Begh as responsible for uniting all Muslims, and as a reason, taking over Mecca. Seljuks were also Muslims too, they werent invading and massacring the other people n their path.

What they had in common with Arabs and Middle Easterns? They were all Muslims. What other? What relation did a Christian Portugese shephard had with a Middle Eastern Muslim before they invaded and slaughtered Middle East? Let me guess.

lol. Believe me, Bosnians and Albanians were desperately preferring Ottomans to Serbs.

As I stated, people of the Balkans were, in majority, happier with venetian or Italian intervention then muslim Ottoman.

why dont you ask this to greek cypriots, They were ruled by venetians, and I am sure they have more knowledge about venetians rule.

Just for your info, when ottomans conquested cyprus, greeks were just slaves, their connection with their homeland was none. They are under pressure. I dont know which country prefer to venetians to ottomans. But I know atleast one country who know both rule, and be sure after all bad blood between greeks and turks, they accept venetians were worse than ottomans.

Because some albanian loves italians, this does not make them better than ottomans. Infact they treat their christian subject, than ottomans treated their christian subject. So you think they were better than ottomans?

So why greeks of istanbul said, we prefer ottomans to latins?

Who knows what lurks in the minds of people. Recently, I've been considering converting into the Bahai religion. It's a matter of individual taste.

Many Native Americans follow their traditional beliefs. Many conserve their languages (especially in Guatamala). The settlement of the American continent was just more through than the turkish settlement of the Balkans.

To be frank, there's not much difference between conquering nations. What matters here, I think, is modern rhetoric.

And I was just giving a reason why the faraway English, French, etc. participated in the crusades. I mentioned the Central Asians so I could use them as a comparative example. And these aren't actual Central Asians, but fictitious ones

And what's this about shephards?

 have so much respect for the crusaders for making war in such a distant lands, bringing our values there. their bravery and faith were without equal. 

is this a joke? before this, you said what crusader did has no relation with princible of christ. (And you are accusing islam)now talking to bringing your values? what type of values are this? you bringed it, but it looks like noone in middle east get it.Maybe greeks in Istanbul feeled crusader values better.

Mr chriac? Or is this a tradition in france?

Although the crusaders were brutal, they were far more progressive than the arabs

I am not aware second one. First one well known.

Yes..... And Russia was the third Roman Empire . The Ottoman Empire law was based on Islamic Sharia laws, the essence of the Ottoman Empire culture was Arabic and Persian muslim. All Ottomans did to be considered "Roman" was the fact that they conquered Constantinople. Ottomans were more closely related to an Abbassid Empire then a Roman one.

lol So you'll be shocked when you learn evfen the land sharing "timar" system was the same with Byzanthinhe style. And Timarli sipahis were just the Turkish version of Byzanthine princes. Ottoman Empire was an Islamic copy of Byzanthine system. They were the true inheritors, I know it is said from the Christian view, but you should face.

Are you kidding? Ottomans were converting the biggest church of a new conquered town, and leaving the others, and even building new ones to strenghen their authority and trust. Istanbul was full of Synagoges and churches, and still there exist an excessive number of them. How much Jewish dominant cities have you ever heard of in history before the illegal state was found? One. And that was Thesellanoiki (once Sel�nik), Jews being settled by Ottomans there.

Even cilicia and my city, still have lots of Ottoman churches left from their reign. They provided 1 church every 20 Christians.

How much mosques exist in Buda? Ottomans didnt built lots of mosques in Europe, but lots of fountains and bridges.

And yes, there were lost of Muslims in Balkans (mostly Turks settled with the "iskan" policy), later they were massacred or returned to Turkey.

Well, that's the mentality of all the ages before 2. World War, and it still exists. We call it imperialism, Ottomans were no different from Romans or Abbasids by this way. But I see your only problem is with Ottomans conquering your lands. What did you expect more? Call for UN?

The number of Albanian sadrazams and veziers was 7 times greater than the Turks. And I bet they were prouder than the padishah for serving the empire.

And as I said before, people of Balkans were in general, unhappy with being tortured. Ottoman policies were creating a heaven from them, a shelter to get rid of Serbian attacks, Catholic oppressure and themselves. Even Greeks of Morea were pleased with the Ottomans conquering them in the beginning, they wanted help from Sultan Mehmed Khan (as they called him "Sultan Basileos") against the two Greek despots.

Believe me, the patriarch was more confortable with the caliphs than it was with the popes (until the collapsing period)...

A culture, who had thousands of libraries full of information that thanks to the inquistadors, we couldnt reach until today. I cant understand how can people stand for the "rape" of European colonists to the unique civilization of Native Americans. The only thing, that the Europeans had superior from them, was gunpowder, and the Europeans learned gunpowder from Turks, who learned it from the Chinese.

dont belittle Ottoman civilization, the halls of Versailles were used for excrements while the Ottomans were inventing vacccine formulas.

And Ottomans were in such position, you could have been speaking better Turkish than me today, and playing your saz.

It was. No need to even discuss why.

Yes, but what was the ethnics of the ones who were in power in the Eastern Roman Empire? Were they pure blooded Romans?

So the Aztecs were converted into christianity by individual taste?

Because we are Turks. We didnt colonize or conquer Anatolia the same way as we did to Balkans. We simply immigrated and mixed here.

Seljuks werent a nomadic empire. In fact they were the most civilized empire of their time after Chinese. East was dominantly superior to west in terms of science, humanity, civilization, culture etc. until Reinessaince.

Franks were studying maths, with the books of Farabi, they were studying medicine with the books of �bn-i Sina until the modern dates.

So you see, nothing was done naturally, we didnt "welcome" Islam....

And I dont think pagans actually welcomed the Christian missioners. Anyway, lots of Balkanians welcomed Islam, it isnt just an issue of belief, religions were equal to politics that age...

What kind of faith orders killing all the inhabitants of a holy city? I know Christianity doesnt. What values? How to obey what your feudal lords' orders?

Dont belittle the Arab progress. Even if the Ummayads were nearly as cruel as the crusaders, at least they had some source of great civilization that westerners learned science and philosophy from.