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balochii View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09-Dec-2010 at 23:37

why dont you bring evidence of what your are saying instead of going in circles, atleast i am bringing evidence, even if i am using wikepedia, who cares, i dont think there is even an online version of rig veda so i could bring evidence directly from there.

your are the one who is lying, everyone knows where the rig veda was written, thats why we have the map showing all the rivers, most of them being in the northern areas of the subcontinent. stop playing these bs hindu nationalistics games, claming there were no aryans, only indians are aryan blah blah. The whole knows you people are nothing but lies and always promote your hindu agendas
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2010 at 23:50

If you were familiar with Rigveda you could have directly mentioned about the places mentioned.

It speaks about Kikata(Bihar) and its king Pramaganda(Magadh kingdonm gained his name from Pramaganda) It speaks about Several kings of Bharata clan who were rulers of Kasi ie eastern Uttar predesh.

It also speaks about bharata kings performing Agni(a fire ritual) on Sarasvati banks.And Devavata a bharata king performing fire ritual at Ilayaspada, Manusa(Manas presently),at Apaya(Apaga tirta presently) ie all on the banks of Drsadvati and Sarasvati.All are in present day Haryana(Kurukshetra) and all are sacred sites of pilgrimage for Hindus.

Griffith had translated Ilayaspada as Ila's place and Manusa as Man(actually manusa is a place which presently known as Manas) and "Vara prithivya"(refering to Kurukshetra) as best place on earth.

Mandala 3

Hymn 23 (composer – Devasrava: Devavata: ca Bharatou)

4 He set thee in the earth’s most lovely station, in Ila’s place in days of fair bright weather

On Man, on Apaya, Agni! on the rivers Drsadvati,Sarasvati, shine richly.

 It speaks about saptasindhu,Sindhu and its tributaries ie panjab on both Indian and pakistani sides where the seven rivers flow.It also speaks about Gandhari and Gandharvas who were known to be from present day Afganistan.

Early kings of Bharata clan  were familiar to only the Eastern banks of sarasvati ie Bharata,Devavata,Srnjaya, Vadhryasva, Divodasa, Partardana, pijavana, Devasravas etc.

Only Sudas is known to have crossed Sarasvat and reached the western side upto the northern tributaries of Indus during his battle with 10 kings of both arya and other tribes

 
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2010 at 23:54
Originally posted by balochii

why dont you bring evidence of what your are saying instead of going in circles, atleast i am bringing evidence, even if i am using wikepedia, who cares, i dont think there is even an online version of rig veda so i could bring evidence directly from there.

your are the one who is lying, everyone knows where the rig veda was written, thats why we have the map showing all the rivers, most of them being in the northern areas of the subcontinent. stop playing these bs hindu nationalistics games, claming there were no aryans, only indians are aryan blah blah. The whole knows you people are nothing but lies and always promote your hindu agendas
What evidence did you bring..? where is the references of rigveda..?
Only thing you are doing is trying to twist and confuse the proofs and maps.
You have started your regular behavior of calling names..
If you cannot prove yourself lets not waste time..
If you dont have knowledge about what rigveda says just admit it instead of calling names..


Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 09-Dec-2010 at 23:55
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Apart from the above it speaks about animals like

1)      Elephant both tamed and wild.

(Ibha,Varana,hastin,srni)

There are 12 references of  Elephants in 6 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,9 & 10.

 

2)      Buffalo (mahisa)

There are more than 40 references to Buffalo in 9 mandalas except 2nd.

 

3)      Indian Bison or Gaur(Gaura)

There are 10 references of Gaura in Rigveda in 5 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,10

 

4)      Peacock (Mayura)

There are 4 references in 3 mandalas ie 1,3,7

 

5)      Chital or spotted dear(prsati)

There are 21 references in 6 mandalas ie 1,2,3,5,7,8

 

6)      Simha (lion)

There are 16 references to Simha in 7 mandalas ie 1,3,4,5,7,9,10

 

7)      Camel (Ustra)

There are 5 references in 2 mandalsa ie 1 &8.

 

So the composers  osf Rigveda were familiar with these animals and the Geographical terrain where they lived.

And it also Speaks about Ganga(Jahnavai) and “ Simsumara”(gangetic dolphin)
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Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

If you were familiar with Rigveda you could have directly mentioned about the places mentioned.

It speaks about Kikata(Bihar) and its king Pramaganda(Magadh kingdonm gained his name from Pramaganda) It speaks about Several kings of Bharata clan who were rulers of Kasi ie eastern Uttar predesh.

It also speaks about bharata kings performing Agni(a fire ritual) on Sarasvati banks.And Devavata a bharata king performing fire ritual at Ilayaspada, Manusa(Manas presently),at Apaya(Apaga tirta presently) ie all on the banks of Drsadvati and Sarasvati.All are in present day Haryana(Kurukshetra) and all are sacred sites of pilgrimage for Hindus.

Griffith had translated Ilayaspada as Ila's place and Manusa as Man(actually manusa is a place which presently known as Manas) and "Vara prithivya"(refering to Kurukshetra) as best place on earth.

Mandala 3

Hymn 23 (composer – Devasrava: Devavata: ca Bharatou)

4 He set thee in the earth’s most lovely station, in Ila’s place in days of fair bright weather

On Man, on Apaya, Agni! on the rivers Drsadvati,Sarasvati, shine richly.

 It speaks about saptasindhu,Sindhu and its tributaries ie panjab on both Indian and pakistani sides where the seven rivers flow.It also speaks about Gandhari and Gandharvas who were known to be from present day Afganistan.

Early kings of Bharata clan  were familiar to only the Eastern banks of sarasvati ie Bharata,Devavata,Srnjaya, Vadhryasva, Divodasa, Partardana, pijavana, Devasravas etc.

Only Sudas is known to have crossed Sarasvat and reached the western side upto the northern tributaries of Indus during his battle with 10 kings of both arya and other tribes

 


Later texts like mahabharrata is speaking about the significance f these sacred places of Kurukshetra

The Mahabharata, in its Tirthayatra Parva section of the Vana Parva, devotes one part (III.81, containing 178 verses) to the KurukSetra region, and gives details about the locations of the major pilgrim centres in this region.

Within a span of 21 verses (III.81.53-73) it gives details about the locations of the particular places with which we are concerned here:

Mbh. III.81.53-54: “Then from there one should go to the world-famous Manusa… By bathing (in the lake) there, a man who is chaste and master of his senses is cleansed of all evils, and (he) glories in the world of heaven.”

Mbh. III.81.55-56: “The distance of a cry east of MAnuSa, there is a river called Apaga(Apaya of Rigveda), visited by the Siddhas;… when one brahmin is fed there, it is as though a crore of them have been fed.”

Mbh. III.81.62-64: “Thereupon one should go to the world-famous Saraka… There is also there the Abode-of-IlA Ford (Ilaspada): by bathing there and worshipping the ancestors and Gods, one suffers no misfortune…”

Mbh. III.81.73: “By bathing in the DrsadvatI and satisfying the deities, a man finds the reward of a Land-of-the-fire (Agnistoma) and an Overnight-Sacrifice (Atiratra).

Atiratra is same as Agnicayana of which I have earlier started a topic.
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Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Apart from the above it speaks about animals like

1)      Elephant both tamed and wild.

(Ibha,Varana,hastin,srni)

There are 12 references of  Elephants in 6 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,9 & 10.

 

2)      Buffalo (mahisa)

There are more than 40 references to Buffalo in 9 mandalas except 2nd.

 

3)      Indian Bison or Gaur(Gaura)

There are 10 references of Gaura in Rigveda in 5 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,10

 

4)      Peacock (Mayura)

There are 4 references in 3 mandalas ie 1,3,7

 

5)      Chital or spotted dear(prsati)

There are 21 references in 6 mandalas ie 1,2,3,5,7,8

 

6)      Simha (lion)

There are 16 references to Simha in 7 mandalas ie 1,3,4,5,7,9,10

 

7)      Camel (Ustra)

There are 5 references in 2 mandalsa ie 1 &8.

 

So the composers  osf Rigveda were familiar with these animals and the Geographical terrain where they lived.

And it also Speaks about Ganga(Jahnavai) and “ Simsumara”(gangetic dolphin)
 
all these animals were also present in the northern part of the subcontinent, so nothing is unique about this
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Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

If you were familiar with Rigveda you could have directly mentioned about the places mentioned.

It speaks about Kikata(Bihar) and its king Pramaganda(Magadh kingdonm gained his name from Pramaganda) It speaks about Several kings of Bharata clan who were rulers of Kasi ie eastern Uttar predesh.

It also speaks about bharata kings performing Agni(a fire ritual) on Sarasvati banks.And Devavata a bharata king performing fire ritual at Ilayaspada, Manusa(Manas presently),at Apaya(Apaga tirta presently) ie all on the banks of Drsadvati and Sarasvati.All are in present day Haryana(Kurukshetra) and all are sacred sites of pilgrimage for Hindus.

Griffith had translated Ilayaspada as Ila's place and Manusa as Man(actually manusa is a place which presently known as Manas) and "Vara prithivya"(refering to Kurukshetra) as best place on earth.

Mandala 3

Hymn 23 (composer – Devasrava: Devavata: ca Bharatou)

4 He set thee in the earth’s most lovely station, in Ila’s place in days of fair bright weather

On Man, on Apaya, Agni! on the rivers Drsadvati,Sarasvati, shine richly.

 It speaks about saptasindhu,Sindhu and its tributaries ie panjab on both Indian and pakistani sides where the seven rivers flow.It also speaks about Gandhari and Gandharvas who were known to be from present day Afganistan.

Early kings of Bharata clan  were familiar to only the Eastern banks of sarasvati ie Bharata,Devavata,Srnjaya, Vadhryasva, Divodasa, Partardana, pijavana, Devasravas etc.

Only Sudas is known to have crossed Sarasvat and reached the western side upto the northern tributaries of Indus during his battle with 10 kings of both arya and other tribes

 

 
read this article for your own education, bihar is only mentioned once, even ganga is only mentioned few times, while rivers in punjab(pakistan) Haryana India are mentioned many many times, this article is really good and explores everything in details: http://voi.org/books/rig/ch4.htm
 
Most of the what is written is rig veda is from punjab(mostly pakistan), afghanistan, haryana and some parts of western Uttar pardesh are mentioned according to the article, which is what i already said by posting those maps, these areas dont cover 80% of india today. Nothing is aryan about most of india today, you can't change that fact despite how much you try


Edited by balochii - 10-Dec-2010 at 20:24
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Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Apart from the above it speaks about animals like

1)      Elephant both tamed and wild.

(Ibha,Varana,hastin,srni)

There are 12 references of  Elephants in 6 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,9 & 10.

 

2)      Buffalo (mahisa)

There are more than 40 references to Buffalo in 9 mandalas except 2nd.

 

3)      Indian Bison or Gaur(Gaura)

There are 10 references of Gaura in Rigveda in 5 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,10

 

4)      Peacock (Mayura)

There are 4 references in 3 mandalas ie 1,3,7

 

5)      Chital or spotted dear(prsati)

There are 21 references in 6 mandalas ie 1,2,3,5,7,8

 

6)      Simha (lion)

There are 16 references to Simha in 7 mandalas ie 1,3,4,5,7,9,10

 

7)      Camel (Ustra)

There are 5 references in 2 mandalsa ie 1 &8.

 

So the composers  osf Rigveda were familiar with these animals and the Geographical terrain where they lived.

And it also Speaks about Ganga(Jahnavai) and “ Simsumara”(gangetic dolphin)
 
all these animals were also present in the northern part of the subcontinent, so nothing is unique about this
Kindly give some proofs for presence of Wild Elephants and Lions in Pakistan
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Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

If you were familiar with Rigveda you could have directly mentioned about the places mentioned.

It speaks about Kikata(Bihar) and its king Pramaganda(Magadh kingdonm gained his name from Pramaganda) It speaks about Several kings of Bharata clan who were rulers of Kasi ie eastern Uttar predesh.

It also speaks about bharata kings performing Agni(a fire ritual) on Sarasvati banks.And Devavata a bharata king performing fire ritual at Ilayaspada, Manusa(Manas presently),at Apaya(Apaga tirta presently) ie all on the banks of Drsadvati and Sarasvati.All are in present day Haryana(Kurukshetra) and all are sacred sites of pilgrimage for Hindus.

Griffith had translated Ilayaspada as Ila's place and Manusa as Man(actually manusa is a place which presently known as Manas) and "Vara prithivya"(refering to Kurukshetra) as best place on earth.

Mandala 3

Hymn 23 (composer – Devasrava: Devavata: ca Bharatou)

4 He set thee in the earth’s most lovely station, in Ila’s place in days of fair bright weather

On Man, on Apaya, Agni! on the rivers Drsadvati,Sarasvati, shine richly.

 It speaks about saptasindhu,Sindhu and its tributaries ie panjab on both Indian and pakistani sides where the seven rivers flow.It also speaks about Gandhari and Gandharvas who were known to be from present day Afganistan.

Early kings of Bharata clan  were familiar to only the Eastern banks of sarasvati ie Bharata,Devavata,Srnjaya, Vadhryasva, Divodasa, Partardana, pijavana, Devasravas etc.

Only Sudas is known to have crossed Sarasvat and reached the western side upto the northern tributaries of Indus during his battle with 10 kings of both arya and other tribes

 

 
read this article for your own education, bihar is only mentioned once, even ganga is only mentioned few times, while rivers in punjab(pakistan) Haryana India are mentioned many many times, this article is really good and explores everything in details: http://voi.org/books/rig/ch4.htm
 
Most of the what is written is rig veda is from punjab(mostly pakistan), afghanistan, haryana and some parts of western Uttar pardesh are mentioned according to the article, which is what i already said by posting those maps, these areas dont cover 80% of india today. Nothing is aryan about most of india today, you can't change that fact despite how much you try
I am proposing a westward expansion under Sudas
and all the kings before sudas were unfamiliar about the western parts of Punjab.
And even after Dasarajna after the ten kings including the five tribes of Lunar dynasty five tribes(including Purus except Bharatas) were defeated by sudas and forced to flee westward crossing Indus,Bharatas remained  in Ganges banks.
And all these five tribes called themselves Arya.
The later Bharatas are the Santanu and Bhishma and Bhishma is knoewn as the Son of Ganga(Gangeya).
And the whole of Rigveda is written by composers who were militantly allied and were close aids of Bharatas.Not even once Bharatas are mentioned in a hostile light.But even other purus are sometimes mentioned as enemies.
If you go through the same link that you have posted I mean fully, you will understand this.


Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 11-Dec-2010 at 03:50
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What I meant to say is Aryans originated on the banks of Sarasvati.They gradually spreaded and occupied to the banks of Indus and other rivers(ie North India and Pakistan)and after the battle of ten kings many of their tribes started migration to other parts of the world
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Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Apart from the above it speaks about animals like

1)      Elephant both tamed and wild.

(Ibha,Varana,hastin,srni)

There are 12 references of  Elephants in 6 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,9 & 10.

 

2)      Buffalo (mahisa)

There are more than 40 references to Buffalo in 9 mandalas except 2nd.

 

3)      Indian Bison or Gaur(Gaura)

There are 10 references of Gaura in Rigveda in 5 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,10

 

4)      Peacock (Mayura)

There are 4 references in 3 mandalas ie 1,3,7

 

5)      Chital or spotted dear(prsati)

There are 21 references in 6 mandalas ie 1,2,3,5,7,8

 

6)      Simha (lion)

There are 16 references to Simha in 7 mandalas ie 1,3,4,5,7,9,10

 

7)      Camel (Ustra)

There are 5 references in 2 mandalsa ie 1 &8.

 

So the composers  osf Rigveda were familiar with these animals and the Geographical terrain where they lived.

And it also Speaks about Ganga(Jahnavai) and “ Simsumara”(gangetic dolphin)
 
all these animals were also present in the northern part of the subcontinent, so nothing is unique about this
Kindly give some proofs for presence of Wild Elephants and Lions in Pakistan
 
This just shows your knowledge, Lions existed in all of south asia until recently:
 
  • P. l. persica, known as the Asiatic Lion or South Asian, Persian, or Indian Lion, once was widespread from Turkey, across Southwest Asia, to Pakistan, India, and even to Bangladesh. However, large prides and daylight activity made them easier to poach than tigers or leopards; now around 300 exist in and near the Gir Forest of India.[22]

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion
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    Posts: 699     		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 03:21
    Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

    What I meant to say is Aryans originated on the banks of Sarasvati.They gradually spreaded and occupied to the banks of Indus and other rivers(ie North India and Pakistan)and after the battle of ten kings many of their tribes started migration to other parts of the world
     
    there is no proof of this at all, you mean Black (dravdians) who were use to the hot indian weather went in to cold weather of afghanistan and europe and became white/blue eyed caucasian with in a matter few thousand years???LOL Interesting hindu theory LOL
     
    This is where your hindu logic fails, you just sound like afrocentric which claim every thing belongs to them. The other way around is much more believable, espeically when even till today many nothern pakistan and some north indians have features of blue eyes/blonde hair.
     
    Rig Veda is a indic document, however aryans wrote it when they settled in northern part of the subcontinent, aryans did not effect any part of central india, most of east india east of UP and ofcourse none of areas of south india were effected, all of these areas have nothing to with aryans and I again come to the main point that 80% of indias of today are not aryan
     
    the closness of sanskrit with avestan and slavic-satem languages is proof enough that there was proto language somewhere in the middle (central asia perhaps) that linked all these languages
     
     


    Edited by balochii - 11-Dec-2010 at 03:23
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 03:45
    Originally posted by balochii

    Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

    Originally posted by balochii

    Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

    Apart from the above it speaks about animals like

    1)      Elephant both tamed and wild.

    (Ibha,Varana,hastin,srni)

    There are 12 references of  Elephants in 6 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,9 & 10.

     

    2)      Buffalo (mahisa)

    There are more than 40 references to Buffalo in 9 mandalas except 2nd.

     

    3)      Indian Bison or Gaur(Gaura)

    There are 10 references of Gaura in Rigveda in 5 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,10

     

    4)      Peacock (Mayura)

    There are 4 references in 3 mandalas ie 1,3,7

     

    5)      Chital or spotted dear(prsati)

    There are 21 references in 6 mandalas ie 1,2,3,5,7,8

     

    6)      Simha (lion)

    There are 16 references to Simha in 7 mandalas ie 1,3,4,5,7,9,10

     

    7)      Camel (Ustra)

    There are 5 references in 2 mandalsa ie 1 &8.

     

    So the composers  osf Rigveda were familiar with these animals and the Geographical terrain where they lived.

    And it also Speaks about Ganga(Jahnavai) and “ Simsumara”(gangetic dolphin)
     
    all these animals were also present in the northern part of the subcontinent, so nothing is unique about this
    Kindly give some proofs for presence of Wild Elephants and Lions in Pakistan
     
    This just shows your knowledge, Lions existed in all of south asia until recently:
     
  • P. l. persica, known as the Asiatic Lion or South Asian, Persian, or Indian Lion, once was widespread from Turkey, across Southwest Asia, to Pakistan, India, and even to Bangladesh. However, large prides and daylight activity made them easier to poach than tigers or leopards; now around 300 exist in and near the Gir Forest of India.[22]

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

    All these animals are found in India and Elephants are found in North to be specific Eastern Uttarpradesh & Bihar .And Simsumara(dolphin) mentioned here is linked to Ganga(Jahnavi)


    Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 11-Dec-2010 at 03:54
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 03:46
    Originally posted by balochii

    Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

    Originally posted by balochii

    Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

    Apart from the above it speaks about animals like

    1)      Elephant both tamed and wild.

    (Ibha,Varana,hastin,srni)

    There are 12 references of  Elephants in 6 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,9 & 10.

     

    2)      Buffalo (mahisa)

    There are more than 40 references to Buffalo in 9 mandalas except 2nd.

     

    3)      Indian Bison or Gaur(Gaura)

    There are 10 references of Gaura in Rigveda in 5 mandalas ie 1,4,6,8,10

     

    4)      Peacock (Mayura)

    There are 4 references in 3 mandalas ie 1,3,7

     

    5)      Chital or spotted dear(prsati)

    There are 21 references in 6 mandalas ie 1,2,3,5,7,8

     

    6)      Simha (lion)

    There are 16 references to Simha in 7 mandalas ie 1,3,4,5,7,9,10

     

    7)      Camel (Ustra)

    There are 5 references in 2 mandalsa ie 1 &8.

     

    So the composers  osf Rigveda were familiar with these animals and the Geographical terrain where they lived.

    And it also Speaks about Ganga(Jahnavai) and “ Simsumara”(gangetic dolphin)
     
    all these animals were also present in the northern part of the subcontinent, so nothing is unique about this
    Kindly give some proofs for presence of Wild Elephants and Lions in Pakistan
     
    This just shows your knowledge, Lions existed in all of south asia until recently:
     
  • P. l. persica, known as the Asiatic Lion or South Asian, Persian, or Indian Lion, once was widespread from Turkey, across Southwest Asia, to Pakistan, India, and even to Bangladesh. However, large prides and daylight activity made them easier to poach than tigers or leopards; now around 300 exist in and near the Gir Forest of India.[22]

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

    What is this period.. of lions in pakistan..? and what about Elephants..?


    Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 11-Dec-2010 at 03:47
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    Posts: 699     		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 04:05
    Elephants existed in the north/punjab area as recently as porus/alexander battle, he used elephants to fight alexander, this is a fact which is recorded
     
    about lions, the only lions remaining today in south asia exist in Gujarat state of india which borders pakistan, they dont exist in east india places like bihar/bengal, so considering the location today is so close to pakistan, lions must have existed in pakistan very recently maybe until few thousands years ago. infact if i am not mistaking, mughals, sikhs, and rajputs were famous for hunting lions in punjab/sindh/rajhistan area, just go research, so they must have existed there until very recently


    Edited by balochii - 11-Dec-2010 at 04:08
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    ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 04:10
    Originally posted by balochii

    Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

    What I meant to say is Aryans originated on the banks of Sarasvati.They gradually spreaded and occupied to the banks of Indus and other rivers(ie North India and Pakistan)and after the battle of ten kings many of their tribes started migration to other parts of the world
     
    there is no proof of this at all, you mean Black (dravdians) who were use to the hot indian weather went in to cold weather of afghanistan and europe and became white/blue eyed caucasian with in a matter few thousand years???LOL Interesting hindu theory LOL
     
    This is where your hindu logic fails, you just sound like afrocentric which claim every thing belongs to them. The other way around is much more believable, espeically when even till today many nothern pakistan and some north indians have features of blue eyes/blonde hair.
     
    Rig Veda is a indic document, however aryans wrote it when they settled in northern part of the subcontinent, aryans did not effect any part of central india, most of east india east of UP and ofcourse none of areas of south india were effected, all of these areas have nothing to with aryans and I again come to the main point that 80% of indias of today are not aryan
     
    the closness of sanskrit with avestan and slavic-satem languages is proof enough that there was proto language somewhere in the middle (central asia perhaps) that linked all these languages
     
    Once again you have started to deviate from the topic.
    Your are so obsessed by colour prejudice that you are mixing every academics with that.  
    Dravidians belong to the Southern part of India.And Dravidians are not black.There are many races who are included in Dravidian fraternity ie who speak dravidian languages and who lives in Dravidam ie South India.Original inhabitants of South India were the Tamil speaking people and other people who speaks other languages which evolved from Tamil.

    Where does South India come into picture here..?
    What are you trying to prove..?

    Please dont workout your hatred for darkskinned people in such forums

    North Indians speak indo-Aryan languages and they also belong to various races.
    Europe was not empty during the aryan migration they had resident populations and there are proofs for the same and the change in material culture ,language,place & river names and genetics after the indo-europeans came are well attested.

    But it is not in Indias case.There is no proof for existance of place and river names in any other language other than sanskrit.
    And genetics and Archaeology is not attesting any migration/invasion.


    Archaeology about the Aryan invasion theory 




    And there is every proof for what I am saying here.

    If you want to know more it will be better to refer to the latest debate going on in this subject between academic Indologists.
    You are just confusing by including racial concepts in this.
    There are many races of people in different parts of India.
    There are people with white ,wheatish,Yellow and dark skins in India.
    People belongingto different races had migrated to south india from North at different times.There had happened many attested migrations from gangetic banks to whole of South India and each tribes keeps seperate accounts of their migrational history.
    There also exists resident population of South India who might be genetically dfferent from the migrants.
    If you have time and heart please go through this report
    But if you link the whole theory with races you will only confuse.

    Sanskrit is the oldest indo-european language,this is attested by all linguists and so it is closest to the Proto indo european.And there is a kentum language identified in northermn Uttarakhand ie Bangani.This is believed to be the Proto-Indo European
    And about linguistics




    Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 11-Dec-2010 at 08:58
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 04:13
    Originally posted by balochii

    Elephants existed in the north/punjab area as recently as porus/alexander battle, he used elephants to fight alexander, this is a fact which is recorded
     
    about lions, the only lions remaining today in south asia exist in Gujarat state of india which borders pakistan, they dont exist in east india places like bihar/bengal, so considering the location today is so close to pakistan, lions must have existed in pakistan very recently maybe until few thousands years ago. infact if i am not mistaking, mughals, sikhs, and rajputs were famous for hunting lions in punjab/sindh/rajhistan area, just go research, so they must have existed there until very recently

    No...
    Porus Alexander battle had battle elephants ie tamed ones brought for battles not wild ones 

    Wild elephants are found only in Tropical rainforests and pakistan,punjab and even haryana is not an elephant habitat.

    And for your information Girnar or the Gir forest is not on Gujarat -Pakistan border,it is in Saurastra.It is seperated from pakistan by sea.And no data about Mughals,Rajputs and sikhs hunting from "Punjab,Sindh and Rajastan" are till date available.


    Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 11-Dec-2010 at 09:12
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 08:09
    Originally posted by balochii


     
    read this article for your own education, bihar is only mentioned once, even ganga is only mentioned few times, while rivers in punjab(pakistan) Haryana India are mentioned many many times, this article is really good and explores everything in details: http://voi.org/books/rig/ch4.htm
     
    Most of the what is written is rig veda is from punjab(mostly pakistan), afghanistan, haryana and some parts of western Uttar pardesh are mentioned according to the article, which is what i already said by posting those maps, these areas dont cover 80% of india today. Nothing is aryan about most of india today, you can't change that fact despite how much you try

    Please find time and go fully through the document that you have linked.I have the same with me.
    It will help you understand the Rigveda
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 08:10

    The Tribes in Rigveda

    Traditional history or puranas speaks about many different tribes of people.The main Kshatriya tribes mentioned in Puranas are the Solar Race(Suryavanshi) of Ikshvakus,Lunar Race(Chandravanshi) of Ailas The Lunar Race of Ailas are further divided into five main branches The Yadus, Turvasas, Druhyus, Anus and Purus.

    Rigveda is little concerned with Iksvakus, inspite of the fact that the second most important dynasty of Rigveda is that of Trksis a branch of Ikshvakus.And this prominence is given to Trksis only because of the  aid given by the kings of this dynasty  to the Purus.

     

     

    The Bharata Dynasty(The most prominent of Rigveda)

     

    Bharata dynasty is a branch of Purus, but separately called as Bharata after the ancestor Bharata.

    Devavata is refered to as an ancestor(father) of Srnjaya.

    Mandala 4

     

    Hymn 15 (composer – Vamadeva  Gautama)

     

    4 He who is kindled eastward for Srnjaya, Devavata’s son,

    Resplendent, tamer of the foe.

     

    Devavata is refered to as the ancestor of Devasravas.

     

    Mandala 3

     

    Hymn 23 (composer – Visvamitra Gathina)

     

    3 Him nobly born of the old fingers ten produced, him whom his Mothers counted dear.

    Praise Devavata’s Agni, thou Devasravas, him who shall be people’s Lord.

    4 He set thee in earth’s most lovely station, in Ila’s place, in days of fair bright weather,

    On man, on Apaya, Agni! on the rivers Drsadvati, Saravati shine richly.

    Mandala 7

     

    Hymn 18 (composer – Vasistha Maitravaruni)

     

    22 Priest-like with praise, I moved around the altar, earning Pijavana’s reward, O Agni,

    Two hundred cows fron Devavan’s descendent, two chariots from Sudas with mares to draw them

     

    Srnjaya is refered to as the ancestor of Divodasa

     

    Mandala 6

     

    Hymn 47 (composer – Garga Bharadvaja)

     

    23 Ten horses and ten treasure chests, ten garments as an added gift,

    These and ten lumps of gold have I received from Divodasa’s hand.

    24 Ten cars with extra steed to each, for the Atharvans hundred cows,

    Hath  Asvatha to Payu given.

    25 Thus Srnjaya’s son honoured the Bharadvajas, recipients of all noble gifts and bounty.

     

    Vadhryasva is referred to as the father of Divodasa

    Mandala 6

     

    Hymn 61 (composer – Bharadvaja Barhaspatya)

     

    1 To Vadhryasva when. Be worshipped with gifts she gave fierce Divodasa, cancellor of debts.

    Consumer of the churlish niggard, one and all, thine, O Sarasvati are these effectual boons.

     

    Pratardana is referred to as the descendent of Divodasa

                                   

    Mandala 9

     

    Hymn 96 (composer – Pratardana Daivodasi) (Devata – Soma pavamana)

     

    Pratardana is referred to as the father of an unnamed king

     

    Mandala 6

     

    Hymn 26 (composer – Vasistha Maitravaruni)

     

    8 So may we he thy friends, thy best beloved, O Indra, at this holy invocation.

    Best be Pratardani, illustrious ruler, in slaying foemen and in gaining riches.

     

    Pratardana is referred to as the ancestor of Sudas

     

    Mandala 7

     

    Hymn 33 (composer – Vasistha Maitravaruni)

     

    3  So verily with these he crossed the river, in company with these he slaughtered Bheda.

    So in the fight with Ten Kings, Vasisthas! Did Indra help Sudas through your devotion.

     

    And in the same Hymn

    14 He brings the bearer of Laud and Saman: first shal he speak bringing the stone for pressing.

    With grateful hearts in reverence approach him: to you, O Pratrdas, Vasistha cometh.

     

     

    Pijavana is referred as an ancestor of Sudas

     

    Mandala 7

     

    Hymn 18 (composer – Vasistha Maitravaruni)

     

     

    22 Priest-like with praise, I moved around the altar, earning Pijavana’s reward, O Agni,

    Two hundred cows fron Devavan’s descendent, two chariots from Sudas with mares to draw them

     

    23 Gift of Paijavana, four horses bear me in the foremost place, trained steeds with pearl to deck them.

    Sudas’ brown steeds, firmly-stepping, carry me and my son for progeny and glory.

    25 Attend on him O ye heroic Maruts as on Sudas father Divodasa.

    Further Paijavana’s desire with favour.Guard faithfully his lasting firm dominion.

     

     

     

    Sahadeva is referred to as the father of Somaka

     

    Mandala 4

     

    Hymn 15 ( composer – Vamadeva Gautama)

     

    9 Long, O ye Asvins, may he live, your care, ye  Gods, the princely son.

    Of Sahadeva, Somaka. 

     

     

    Mandala 10

     

    Hymn 179 (composer – Pratardana Kasiraja) (Devata – Indra)
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    Posts: 672     		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 08:16
    The above referrences of Rigveda will leave the Bharata dynastic lists as this.There maybe many intervening kings in between who are not mentioned in Rigveda.

    1.       Bharata

    2. DevavAta

    3. Srnjaya

    4. VadhryaSva

    5. DivodAsa

    6. Pratardana

    7. Pijavana 


    8. a. DevaSravas
        b. SudAs

    9. Sahadeva


    10. Somaka


    Pratardana is referred to as the King of kasi in the Anukramani(composer details) which indicates that Bharatas were the Kings of Kasi in Eastern Uttarpradesh.

    Their association with Sarasvati and the fire rituals performed by them on the banks of Sarasvati on Manusa,Apaya(Apaga Tirta) & ilayaspada at Varaprithivya (ie Kurukshetra in Haryana) indicates that their kingdom extended from eastern Uttarpradesh to haryana ie the banks of Sarasvati. 
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