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Greatest Ottoman Sultan

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Poll Question: Who is the Greatest Ottoman Sultan?
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azimuth View Drop Down
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greatest Ottoman Sultan
    Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 20:20

 

what?

i dont know from where you got your information but its false for sure the Shia are whom wanted to steal prophet's body and they digged a tunnel.

check out this http://alinaam.org.za/library/rasul/sbmosque.htm

and what do you mean respect it? off course they will more than Turkey at least it wont be put in a museum for anybody to see.

 

 

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 03:00

Azimuth If we dont trust vahabis, we have some reason. IIRC they destroyed a lot of historical  tomb and buildings,

I  think their  respect to history is not enough. And "it wont be put in a museum for anybody to see"  I dont see any wrong at  this. It was realy good to see them.

Dont  missunderstood, but  I think our respect for these are more than vahabis.

I dont ever heard Vahabis wish them did they?

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 04:45

 

i dont see you have any solid reasons, i mean no offence but your education system since Ataturk is full of hate toward Arabs, i dont know if that was  one way to get you look toward the west and be one of them and forget that you actully came from the east.

they destroyed the buildings you are talking about because they were not there before you came, not because they hate you, NO its because the way Ottoman dealed with the Graves are more like the Shieas who are making Graves Holy and start praying toward them and deviating from what the religion is about which supposed to be worshipping and praying to one god, and by praying towards others Graves whoever they are Prophets, or the Prophet's companions is not mentioned and not practice in the Early years of Islam.

note that most of the buildings ottomans or memluks built were destroyed Except the one on tope of the Prophet's Grave. which they didnt want to touch because they feard that this may effect the house and may cause damage to the grave itself.

 

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 04:57

No  you understand me wrong, I dont care If that building are Turkish or not and this is nothing related with Ataturk

I mean, If they treat tombs like this way, why do you think they will think  prophet equipment, sword of Ali or other things are sacred?

I think They should stay Turkey.

who are making Graves Holy and start praying toward them

And this is just a joke, I hope,we respect them because they are  respected muslim, we dont pray them.

 

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 04:58

I accept their place is Medine, but If they dont saw enough respect, They should stay at Turkey.

did vahabis ever want them?

 

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 08:22
Originally posted by azimuth

 

what?

i dont know from where you got your information but its false for sure the Shia are whom wanted to steal prophet's body and they digged a tunnel.

 

 

I dont know from which source you got this information your completly wrong if you not prove that. but dont accuse other part of shia because there is one shia (immamate)and the rest arn not shia then understand that Azimuth .
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 08:30

 Azimuth are you wahhabi ?or not ?

Why you protect them they are the worse thing on the earth all of them with their godfather (Saudi royal family). Turkish member is right  they want to detroy everything.

And who said you can't pray near graves except  Wahhabies?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:40

i dont see you have any solid reasons, i mean no offence but your education system since Ataturk is full of hate toward Arabs, i dont know if that was  one way to get you look toward the west and be one of them and forget that you actully came from the east.

Everything secular doesnt mean they are against Arabs. No need to get paranoid. We dont have such system. But Ataturk did the right thing by getting religious laws out of national laws. If he didnt, we would have no difference other mullahocracies of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Religion collapses improvement, that's why Europe is 500 years more developed than all Arab league states.

Coming from the east doesnt mean you should be ruled by Sheriah, and looking towards west doesnt mean you'll teach your Children how great Jesus was. It's about getting rid of religious oppression.

I accept their place is Medine, but If they dont saw enough respect, They should stay at Turkey.

I dont. They belong to us. Especially Zulfikar, Arabs have no respect to that because Alevis and Shias idolize Hz. Ali, Lion of God. Turks used to protect Islam and its values against enemies, not Saudis. Turkish armies used to be fully sacrificed in Yemen and Jarusalem, not Arabic armies. So those treasure belongs to our protection, not Ottoman hater Saudi government.

But I agree on some point. They shouldnt be kept in museums where everyone can see it. I dont remember any museums in Europe with showing us the original cross etc. Religious treasure should be private to their owners, so we should keep them in more sacred places.

But about holy Zulfikar, to me, it should be hanged to the gate of Istanbul, showing everyone coming to Istanbul, with a writing under it "Belongs to Lion of God."

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 10:22
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

Originally posted by azimuth

 

what?

i dont know from where you got your information but its false for sure the Shia are whom wanted to steal prophet's body and they digged a tunnel.

 

 

I dont know from which source you got this information your completly wrong if you not prove that. but dont accuse other part of shia because there is one shia (immamate)and the rest arn not shia then understand that Azimuth .

lf you read the next sentence i wrote after the one you quoted you will see from where i got this information

and you are saying that there are only one Sector in Shia? and the rest like the Ismaelies and the Zaydies ....etc  are not Shia??

Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

 Azimuth are you wahhabi ?or not ?

Why you protect them they are the worse thing on the earth all of them with their godfather (Saudi royal family). Turkish member is right  they want to detroy everything.

And who said you can't pray near graves except  Wahhabies?

iam from the Arabian Peninsual and from UAE and Sunni,  you call that Wahhabi ? we dont call ourselfs wahhabi or anything we call ourselfs sunnies, i think the name wahhabi came from Saudi Arabia 200 or 300 years ago.

you need to define what do you mean by Wahhabi and dont do that in this thread, please open a new one and we will have a discussion about it.

and where and when did i protected the Saudi royal family? dont accuse others without any proofs.

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

i dont see you have any solid reasons, i mean no offence but your education system since Ataturk is full of hate toward Arabs, i dont know if that was  one way to get you look toward the west and be one of them and forget that you actully came from the east.

Everything secular doesnt mean they are against Arabs. No need to get paranoid. We dont have such system. But Ataturk did the right thing by getting religious laws out of national laws. If he didnt, we would have no difference other mullahocracies of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Religion collapses improvement, that's why Europe is 500 years more developed than all Arab league states.

Coming from the east doesnt mean you should be ruled by Sheriah, and looking towards west doesnt mean you'll teach your Children how great Jesus was. It's about getting rid of religious oppression.

I accept their place is Medine, but If they dont saw enough respect, They should stay at Turkey.

I dont. They belong to us. Especially Zulfikar, Arabs have no respect to that because Alevis and Shias idolize Hz. Ali, Lion of God. Turks used to protect Islam and its values against enemies, not Saudis. Turkish armies used to be fully sacrificed in Yemen and Jarusalem, not Arabic armies. So those treasure belongs to our protection, not Ottoman hater Saudi government.

But I agree on some point. They shouldnt be kept in museums where everyone can see it. I dont remember any museums in Europe with showing us the original cross etc. Religious treasure should be private to their owners, so we should keep them in more sacred places.

But about holy Zulfikar, to me, it should be hanged to the gate of Istanbul, showing everyone coming to Istanbul, with a writing under it "Belongs to Lion of God."

they are yours because you were protectors of Islam? are you joking? are you saying Memluks were against Islam? Ottoman Stole these stuff from the Memluks dont forget not from Arabs.

 

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 11:10
wahaha lol Ottomans stole them from Mameluks such a joke...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 15:10

Ottomans didnt steal them, they earned them. Also, dont forget that Mamelukes also stole them from Arabs. So if we are to give the sword back, we wouldnt give it to Saudi government, but Egypt.

BTW, I cant see any reason for that. It's safety is important, and it is safe in Istanbul. All Muslims can come and see it in Istanbul.

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  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 15:56
We should take that sword back, If only Haffez al Assad had been a Sunni, and not a socialist alawi we would have taught those turks a lesson.

Azmith, Can you tell me are there Turkish soldiers guarding a Mosque/Grave in syria still?

If so these men should be whipped by a camels whip and driven before donkeys all the way back to anatolia.


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  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 16:04
also I do not trust your websites info azmith.


its too full of lionizing.

The Rasool Allah never sepparated himself from the people, he was a Man like we are do not make the errors like the christians and diefy him, rather remember his words.


"If there are any amongst you, who  Worship Muhammed, he is dead.
But If is God you worship he lives forever"
Abu Bakr R.a.

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 18:05
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

i dont see you have any solid reasons, i mean no offence but your education system since Ataturk is full of hate toward Arabs, i dont know if that was  one way to get you look toward the west and be one of them and forget that you actully came from the east.

Everything secular doesnt mean they are against Arabs. No need to get paranoid. We dont have such system. But Ataturk did the right thing by getting religious laws out of national laws. If he didnt, we would have no difference other mullahocracies of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Religion collapses improvement, that's why Europe is 500 years more developed than all Arab league states.

Coming from the east doesnt mean you should be ruled by Sheriah, and looking towards west doesnt mean you'll teach your Children how great Jesus was. It's about getting rid of religious oppression.

I accept their place is Medine, but If they dont saw enough respect, They should stay at Turkey.

I dont. They belong to us. Especially Zulfikar, Arabs have no respect to that because Alevis and Shias idolize Hz. Ali, Lion of God. Turks used to protect Islam and its values against enemies, not Saudis. Turkish armies used to be fully sacrificed in Yemen and Jarusalem, not Arabic armies. So those treasure belongs to our protection, not Ottoman hater Saudi government.

But I agree on some point. They shouldnt be kept in museums where everyone can see it. I dont remember any museums in Europe with showing us the original cross etc. Religious treasure should be private to their owners, so we should keep them in more sacred places.

But about holy Zulfikar, to me, it should be hanged to the gate of Istanbul, showing everyone coming to Istanbul, with a writing under it "Belongs to Lion of God."




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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 07:05
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Ottomans didnt steal them, they earned them. Also, dont forget that Mamelukes also stole them from Arabs. So if we are to give the sword back, we wouldnt give it to Saudi government, but Egypt.

BTW, I cant see any reason for that. It's safety is important, and it is safe in Istanbul. All Muslims can come and see it in Istanbul.

well ok i wont use the word "stole",

it is true that Ottoman "took" these stuff from the Memluks  But they were with the Arab Caliph ( Caliph just by titile without any power) and not with the Memluk sulatn.

so they respected it to be with the Abbasides not with them.

the Ottomans ( Salem) took them from the Caliph and killed the Caliph and before that he ordered the Caliph to give the title to him ( salem)

plus all that the Ottomans had another sowrd which they consider holy and that didnt belog to the prophet or caliph Ali.

Originally posted by Al Bedawi

also I do not trust your websites info azmith.


its too full of lionizing.

The Rasool Allah never sepparated himself from the people, he was a Man like we are do not make the errors like the christians and diefy him, rather remember his words.


"If there are any amongst you, who  Worship Muhammed, he is dead.
But If is God you worship he lives forever"
Abu Bakr R.a.

what sites are you talking about??

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:02

We should take that sword back, If only Haffez al Assad had been a Sunni, and not a socialist alawi we would have taught those turks a lesson.

Hafez Assad is an Alevi. But it wouldnt make any difference if he was a Sunni, Shia, Naqshibendi, Ajzumendi etc. Any Arab states isnt capable of showing us any lesson. If we suddenly decide to collect all the water of ephesus in the barrage of Ataturk, 2/3 of Syria would die in one week because of thirst...

Anyway, Syria became our ally with Iran now, so we wont need to cause them die of thirst...

Azmith, Can you tell me are there Turkish soldiers guarding a Mosque/Grave in syria still?

Which one do you mean?

If so these men should be whipped by a camels whip and driven before donkeys all the way back to anatolia

So try it, then we will turn all Syrian population to fallahs...

it is true that Ottoman "took" these stuff from the Memluks  But they were with the Arab Caliph ( Caliph just by titile without any power) and not with the Memluk sulatn.

The Caliph being an Arab, Azeri or Fin doesnt matter. Also, Mamelukes didnt leave those stuff in Medine, they took them to Egypt, so their action had no difference from Ottomans. It was like a flag race.

the Ottomans ( Salem) took them from the Caliph and killed the Caliph and before that he ordered the Caliph to give the title to him ( salem)

Yeah, I agree with you on that point. Killing the Caliph was a violent action.

plus all that the Ottomans had another sowrd which they consider holy and that didnt belog to the prophet or caliph Ali

Which one is that?


 


 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 09:01
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

it is true that Ottoman "took" these stuff from the Memluks  But they were with the Arab Caliph ( Caliph just by titile without any power) and not with the Memluk sulatn.

The Caliph being an Arab, Azeri or Fin doesnt matter. Also, Mamelukes didnt leave those stuff in Medine, they took them to Egypt, so their action had no difference from Ottomans. It was like a flag race.

the Ottomans ( Salem) took them from the Caliph and killed the Caliph and before that he ordered the Caliph to give the title to him ( salem)

Yeah, I agree with you on that point. Killing the Caliph was a violent action.

plus all that the Ottomans had another sowrd which they consider holy and that didnt belog to the prophet or caliph Ali

Which one is that?

 

iam not sure if the memluks took them from Madina or they were with the Caliphs in Bagdad before the mongols, then the surviers from bagdad took them to cairo since it was not save anywhere else but there.

about that sowrd iam not sure what it called but as far as i know it was used in the ceromony of new Sultan. i think it beloned to one of the Generals sent there in the early islamic years.

 

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 10:10
Azimuth I told you dont accuse the Druz and their godfather Alhakem beamr allah they are less than minority they are not ismaali too,I wrote the link,I didn't said you protect the family only but all wahhabies by saying you cant pray near graves even sunnies do this in Iraq and  all other islamic country except Saudi arabia,I don't call the sunnies wahhabies you are wrong there is huge different,If you simply accused the shia you accept when anyone said the sunnies are terrorists or they killed grandson of the prophet or they hitted the trade center in Newyurk or they are responsible in London blast or  they killed innocent people now in Iraq but i cant do that because it is not fair.
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:03

Azimuth what you say what you show us, we wont send those worthfull stuff to s. arabia with his vahabbi rejim.

Inshallah one day youll go to Mekka (the holy place) and see with youre EYES how they threat their own worthfull things. I heard enough story's of my father, ok? So first go there and see it inshallah with youre eyes and then try to discuss it with me....

Like building a gambling hotel near Mekka.... Those who let build that should keep that worthfull stuff huh?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 15:12
Azimuth, you cant blame Ottomans because of respecting other swords too. Swords were always holy and respectable for Turks, since the times in Central Asia. As we have a term, about the three most important things in a Turk's lile "at, avrat, kilich (silah)", meaning "horse, woman, sword". It was like a preIslamic cult, and it doesnt mean we were unrespectable t Islamic treasures.
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