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Greatest Ottoman Sultan

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Poll Question: Who is the Greatest Ottoman Sultan?
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8 [28.57%]
11 [39.29%]
5 [17.86%]
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ok ge View Drop Down
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greatest Ottoman Sultan
    Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 19:45

Originally posted by HulaguHan

Yes I know, but really, in the late discussions here, we Turks were really pissed of with Iranic nationalists who claimed our people to be of Iranian heritage, like Seljuks,  Safavids, Azeris, Afsarids, etc...

Well, as I always say, do not be easily provoked. There are Iranian nationalist who claims everything is Iranian, including Safavids, Seljuks...etc and there are also Turks who are ultra nationalist too, just check "the kurd" thread and you will see couple who claimed Salahaddin to be a Turk!.

Just cool down, because you actually ended up addressing me ,the wrong person, for their nationalist claims.

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 19:22
Yes I know, but really, in the late discussions here, we Turks were really pissed of with Iranic nationalists who claimed our people to be of Iranian heritage, like Seljuks,  Safavids, Azeris, Afsarids, etc...
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 16:48

I agree with Seko.

Hulagu Han, I never said Safavid are Iranians. If you mean describing the battle of Merv where I came across the word "Iranians", then that is something else. The fact that the Safavid dynasty were Turks doesn't mean their army is a turk. They were mostly Shia Iranians.

Check again the post please.

Originally posted by ok ge

Yes, Safavid are Turks, however ethnicity was not an issue those days more than the rise of Shi'ism and the battles between the two major Muslim sects. 



Edited by ok ge
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 16:23
I think that both of you are correct in a sense. Back then affiliations to leaders and hence empires were based on many things. Religion was one of them. Tribal loyalty and language convenience was another.
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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 15:54

If Safavids are Iranians, with that logic Ottomans are Greco-Romans Mameluke Turks are not Turks but Arabs.

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 15:52

They are not Iranian, they are Safavid Turks.

No ethnicity was important, very very important... Ethnicity was the triggering of Turkoman rebellions (by siding with Timur, Akkoyunlu and Safavids) against Ottomans.

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 15:02

Actually there is no proof that Shah Ismail I, the founder of the Safavid dynasty, is a descendant of the prophet (PBUH). Many before him and after him claimed the same. From the Fattimid of Egypt to Saddam Hussien.

Yes, Safavid are Turks, however ethnicity was not an issue those days more than the rise of Shi'ism and the battles between the two major Muslim sects.  He definitely restricted the Ottoman Empire focus on conquering Europe.

He is definitely a brilliant leader,  as in 1510, Isma'il In battle near the city of Merv, some 17,000 Iranians ambushed and defeated a superior Uzbek force numbering 28,000.  However, he was ruthless too. After the Uzbek ruler Muhammad Shaybani was caught and killed trying to escape the battle, and the shah had his skull made into a jeweled drinking goblet.

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 14:00
Originally posted by Mortaza

Selim is not timurlenk, this is too much for him. Oguzoglu because  of your religious sect,you have no right to blame someone. Why dont you also say, this turkmens rebelled,  they joined with iran? It was them who attacked turks before.

Azimuth why do you think  selim was like timurlenk?

 

 

Mortaza, at least I do not want Turks to do this mistake.

Safavids are Turks and their empire is a Turkic empire.

But I respect your thoughts if you consider Turkomans as rebels. It is up to our perspective. I think the opposite way, Turkomans prefered another Turkic domination over Ottoman Domination.

And moreover never forget, Shah Ismail is a Seyid also. He is Turkic but has some Prophet blood in him.



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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 15:42
You are always welcome dst
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  Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 15:20

 

     Ok I am sorry but he really hurt my national emotions. I dont hate Arabs but this guy is always doing the same thing.This is only an answer to him , but you are right I must be calm , thanks

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2005 at 13:27

Originally posted by Evrenosgazi

This words are for the camel rider al-Badawi.You little camel rider.How can you any lesson to the Turks.First give the lesson to the 3 million sraeli.

One advice: Learn to control your temper. Don't be easily provoked by non-sense fools.

You just acted as fool as him. He generalized, causing some neutral turks to get upset, and you repeated his mistake, causing the same damage on the other side.

I would go with Sulyman the magnificent. Definitely the empire will go to decay after him, because his reign was the heights of the Ottoman Empire in all times.



Edited by ok ge
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2005 at 13:07
Chill out Evrenosgazi, just because you believe he insulted something you hold dear does not mean you have to stoop to similar belligerencies in order to get your point across.
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  Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2005 at 13:02

 

   This words are for the camel rider al-Badawi.You little camel rider.How can you any lesson to the Turks.First give the lesson to the 3 million sraeli.I dont understand your Turk paranoya.Did your mother tell anything about Turks?Be calm go to a doctor for your paranoya or aTurk will be your doctor.And you arabs know how Turks are.(11th-20th century.)There will be no British,ndian soldiers

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  Quote Ottoman Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 18:26
  I think Suleiman the magnificent was the greatest Ottoman sultan.  During his rule he made the Empire huge and powerful.  However, during his rule the empire would also start a long period of decay, until finally the empire was abolished.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 15:12
Azimuth, you cant blame Ottomans because of respecting other swords too. Swords were always holy and respectable for Turks, since the times in Central Asia. As we have a term, about the three most important things in a Turk's lile "at, avrat, kilich (silah)", meaning "horse, woman, sword". It was like a preIslamic cult, and it doesnt mean we were unrespectable t Islamic treasures.
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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:03

Azimuth what you say what you show us, we wont send those worthfull stuff to s. arabia with his vahabbi rejim.

Inshallah one day youll go to Mekka (the holy place) and see with youre EYES how they threat their own worthfull things. I heard enough story's of my father, ok? So first go there and see it inshallah with youre eyes and then try to discuss it with me....

Like building a gambling hotel near Mekka.... Those who let build that should keep that worthfull stuff huh?

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 10:10
Azimuth I told you dont accuse the Druz and their godfather Alhakem beamr allah they are less than minority they are not ismaali too,I wrote the link,I didn't said you protect the family only but all wahhabies by saying you cant pray near graves even sunnies do this in Iraq and  all other islamic country except Saudi arabia,I don't call the sunnies wahhabies you are wrong there is huge different,If you simply accused the shia you accept when anyone said the sunnies are terrorists or they killed grandson of the prophet or they hitted the trade center in Newyurk or they are responsible in London blast or  they killed innocent people now in Iraq but i cant do that because it is not fair.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 09:01
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

it is true that Ottoman "took" these stuff from the Memluks  But they were with the Arab Caliph ( Caliph just by titile without any power) and not with the Memluk sulatn.

The Caliph being an Arab, Azeri or Fin doesnt matter. Also, Mamelukes didnt leave those stuff in Medine, they took them to Egypt, so their action had no difference from Ottomans. It was like a flag race.

the Ottomans ( Salem) took them from the Caliph and killed the Caliph and before that he ordered the Caliph to give the title to him ( salem)

Yeah, I agree with you on that point. Killing the Caliph was a violent action.

plus all that the Ottomans had another sowrd which they consider holy and that didnt belog to the prophet or caliph Ali

Which one is that?

 

iam not sure if the memluks took them from Madina or they were with the Caliphs in Bagdad before the mongols, then the surviers from bagdad took them to cairo since it was not save anywhere else but there.

about that sowrd iam not sure what it called but as far as i know it was used in the ceromony of new Sultan. i think it beloned to one of the Generals sent there in the early islamic years.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:02

We should take that sword back, If only Haffez al Assad had been a Sunni, and not a socialist alawi we would have taught those turks a lesson.

Hafez Assad is an Alevi. But it wouldnt make any difference if he was a Sunni, Shia, Naqshibendi, Ajzumendi etc. Any Arab states isnt capable of showing us any lesson. If we suddenly decide to collect all the water of ephesus in the barrage of Ataturk, 2/3 of Syria would die in one week because of thirst...

Anyway, Syria became our ally with Iran now, so we wont need to cause them die of thirst...

Azmith, Can you tell me are there Turkish soldiers guarding a Mosque/Grave in syria still?

Which one do you mean?

If so these men should be whipped by a camels whip and driven before donkeys all the way back to anatolia

So try it, then we will turn all Syrian population to fallahs...

it is true that Ottoman "took" these stuff from the Memluks  But they were with the Arab Caliph ( Caliph just by titile without any power) and not with the Memluk sulatn.

The Caliph being an Arab, Azeri or Fin doesnt matter. Also, Mamelukes didnt leave those stuff in Medine, they took them to Egypt, so their action had no difference from Ottomans. It was like a flag race.

the Ottomans ( Salem) took them from the Caliph and killed the Caliph and before that he ordered the Caliph to give the title to him ( salem)

Yeah, I agree with you on that point. Killing the Caliph was a violent action.

plus all that the Ottomans had another sowrd which they consider holy and that didnt belog to the prophet or caliph Ali

Which one is that?


 


 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 07:05
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Ottomans didnt steal them, they earned them. Also, dont forget that Mamelukes also stole them from Arabs. So if we are to give the sword back, we wouldnt give it to Saudi government, but Egypt.

BTW, I cant see any reason for that. It's safety is important, and it is safe in Istanbul. All Muslims can come and see it in Istanbul.

well ok i wont use the word "stole",

it is true that Ottoman "took" these stuff from the Memluks  But they were with the Arab Caliph ( Caliph just by titile without any power) and not with the Memluk sulatn.

so they respected it to be with the Abbasides not with them.

the Ottomans ( Salem) took them from the Caliph and killed the Caliph and before that he ordered the Caliph to give the title to him ( salem)

plus all that the Ottomans had another sowrd which they consider holy and that didnt belog to the prophet or caliph Ali.

Originally posted by Al Bedawi

also I do not trust your websites info azmith.


its too full of lionizing.

The Rasool Allah never sepparated himself from the people, he was a Man like we are do not make the errors like the christians and diefy him, rather remember his words.


"If there are any amongst you, who  Worship Muhammed, he is dead.
But If is God you worship he lives forever"
Abu Bakr R.a.

what sites are you talking about??

 

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