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an interesting question.
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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: an interesting question.
    Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 17:02

oki, If you can feed forum with articles, I think a forum should open for arabs.

 
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Al Bedawi View Drop Down
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Posts: 72 		  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 17:09
Of course.
An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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Posts: 72 		  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 17:10
My first one will be about the Glorious Battle of Qadasiya, Followed by the defeat of the zenata of africa.

later we will discuss the wars with the Turks.
An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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azimuth View Drop Down
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 18:13
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I don't agree, if we want to use "and" then we should say "Islamic world and non-Islamic regions in the Middle East and North Africa"!!, I think this one is better:

Middle East and North Africa
From the rise of Islam to the fall of the Ottoman Empire

then we missed the main point for this discussion which is the period before islam !

 adding pre-Islamic

Middle East and North Africa
Pre-Islamic History to the rise of Islam until the fall of the Ottomans

or

Islamic and Pre-Islamic History until the fall of the Ottomans.

or

History of the Middle East and North Africa before and after Islam.

?

well anything that shows the period before islam and the period of Islam rising untill the 18th Century.

 

 

 
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Posts: 370 		  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 21:44

Al Bedawi, regarding the linguistical differences, Turks and Mongols are defined as two different nationalities. But these two, co-operating either by force (Gok Turk-Rouran) or without force (Uighur-Mongol-Kyrgiz etc..., remember in 1206 a Turko-Mongol Qurultay elected Cinghiss as Qahan), managed to build great empires.

Islam was a favorable update to Turks, likewise Buddhism (Qarakhanids) or Nestorianism (Nomadic tribes) or Manichesism (Uighurs).

The two greatest civilization of Turko-Mongol society occured in the Islamic days for sure, Ottomans, Safavids, Seljuks, Timurids, Baburids, etc... But that will not delete our previous days.

Those previous guys, the shiled faced dudes, stopped you in Jaxartes banks. Like Khazars stopped your Caucasian invasion, or Romans stopped you at the gates of eastern Anatolia, or Franks in Pyrennes...

by the way, middle asian steps forum does not belong only the Turks. The Altaic nationality group has 3 members, Turks, Mongols and Tungus.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 22:47

Any title that could link the pre-islamic history of people outside arabian peninsula to arab would be a misrepresentation of history. There are a lot arab nationalist web sites that do that already why would you want to change this one
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 02:05
Originally posted by hani

Any title that could link the pre-islamic history of people outside arabian peninsula to arab would be a misrepresentation of history. There are a lot arab nationalist web sites that do that already why would you want to change this one

its not linking them together its just puting them in the same forum,

and you are somehow paranoid about Arabic history, the possible new title is " Middle east and north afric"   where did it say Arab?? and its not even suggesting a common history all the time in history  they share common part of history after islam came for sure.

 
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 04:16

Before and after Islam = The whole history - Islam!

I think for satisfying both Al Bedawi and hani, we can use this one:

Middle East and North Africa
Middle Easterns and North Africans, such as Arabs, Berbers, and Jews

However they were mostly ruled by Persians, Romans and Turks!



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 04:49

 

we cannot satify everybody but then i meant the period in the middle east after the end of the Ancient history to the end of the 18/19th century

also Jews history is in the Ancient history and in the modern history and in between they were part of others history more or less.

so i think its better we make it clearer that we mean the period between the end of Ancient History.

Middle East and North Africa
Middle Easterns and North Africans from 1st to 19th Century AD.

?

 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 05:09

Personally I don't see anything wrong with Islamic world and I am not sure why it should change, but that is just my humble opinion. The term middle east and north africa covers a lot history and it would include many of other forums in here. You are going to use that term meaning to point to a very small portion of middle east history which would be mis-leading, and azimuth I am not being paranoid just stating my opinion
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azimuth View Drop Down
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 05:29

 

ok

one of these is ok.

 

1- Middle East and North Africa
     Pre-Islamic History to the rise of Islam until the fall of the Ottomans

2-  Islamic World, Middle East and North Africa
     Islamic and Pre-Islamic History until the fall of the Ottomans

3- Middle East and North Africa
     Middle Easterns and North Africans, such as Arabs, Berbers, and Jews

4- Middle East and North Africa
     Middle Easterns and North Africans from 1st to 19th Century AD.

5- Islamic World
     From the Prophet Mohammed to the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

 

i know the last one is the same and that for those who see that the current name is the most proper one.


 

or should i make a poll??

 



Edited by azimuth
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Cengiz Kagan View Drop Down
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Cengiz Kagan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 05:31
Originally posted by Al Bedawi

why is there a Forum for Turks, and Persians but not Arabs?




Because arabs have no idendity, history, culture etc. besides Islam.
TANRI TURKU KORUSUN
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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 05:34

why dont you just ban this moron?

 
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azimuth View Drop Down
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 05:39

Originally posted by Cengiz Kagan

Originally posted by Al Bedawi

why is there a Forum for Turks, and Persians but not Arabs?




Because arabs have no idendity, history, culture etc. besides Islam.

they had identity, hisory and culture before islam.

the thing is that Islam Came so Big that it shadowed all that.

Originally posted by Mortaza

why dont you just ban this moron?

 

who is the " moron" we should ban ?

 

 



Edited by azimuth
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Cent View Drop Down
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Posts: 1013 		  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 05:40
Cengiz Kagan, are you like a plague or something? The only posts you've written are negative and hostile against other nationalities...
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 06:02

Please just ignore provocative posts guys,

I think the possible forum names such as "Middle East and North Africa" would be unfair to the all other middle Eastern subjects' and rulers' histories, including Romans, Turks and Persians. Middle East and Northern Africa have strong historical bonds btw other Mediterranian regions, Iran and even Central Asia. Limiting it with just Arabs, Hebrews and Berberis wont be fair at all.

I suggest something like the second option.
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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 06:39

azimuth

Cengiz,he is a shame for Turks and I dont miss him, If  he banned.

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 07:38

If you ask me this "Islamic World" is the best but it is a good suggestion to make poll.

I think the problem is just for some Arabic dynasties before Islam, so we can use "Islamic World and Pre-Islamic Arabia".
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 07:56
pre Islamic Middle East would be better, because middle East wasnt all "Arabia" before Islam.
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 08:13
Yes but they belonged to Persian and Roman empires before Islam, you know Iran is/was one of the largest cities of the Middle east.
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