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Worst mistake in the islamic history?

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Moustafa Pasha View Drop Down
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  Quote Moustafa Pasha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Worst mistake in the islamic history?
    Posted: 01-Aug-2005 at 21:08

Caliph Osman Ibn Affan was killed by mutineers in 656 AD and a strugle for the succssession ensued between Ali Ibn Abu Talib the cousin and son in-law of Prohet Mohamed,peace be upon him and Muawiya Ibn Abu Suffian Governor Of Damascus.In the meantime Caliph Ali Was eleced In Mecca.

In 658 Caliph Ali's forces met Muawiya's and after a short fight Muawiya suggested arbitration to choose who will be Caliph.

Most of Ali's army agreed to arbitration while others in his army regarded this as a betrayal and a group of 12000 men repudiated his cause leaving both sides to fight it out.They became known as Khawarij.

Caliph Ali was assassinated in his new Capital Kufain 661 by a Kharijite zealot.That was the start of the Shia branch of Islam,who venerate him a second only to the prophet.

After Ali's death Muawiya subdued Iraq and then formally established himself as caliph and,transferred the capital of the Moslem Empire at Dmascus.

Muawiya made the mistake of emulating Byzantine hereditary royal tradition and annouced that his son will be the next caliph.

I consider this as the biggest mistake of Islam, which started by electing democratically its Leaders and ended by having a heditary system of leadership wich was copied from a corrupt Byzantine State.

 



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magavan View Drop Down
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  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 06:21
The worst Mistake is Salman Al Farsi, Father of Islam.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 07:11

Maybe It is you worst  mistake of Islam,  created by your  family.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 16:42

allowing the Turks into Islam.

No, maybe allowing your kind of Arabs exist. We had to power to erase them from the face of earth you know.

The worst mistake in Islam is later Ottomans trying to get rid of all Alevis and being enemies with its Turkmen population. But whatever, I love Ottoman Empire...

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 16:48

Oguzoglu

well they are supporting Shah of Iran. or I am wrong?

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 17:19
Well, considering that the builders of the Safavid Empire were these exiled Alevis, yes, they were supporting themselves against Ottoman authority.
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  Quote magavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 14:01
Salman al Farsi was a traitor, he created Islam for his own revenge against zoroastrism . Islam has the same bases of zoroastrism: adam and eve, after life, paradise/evil...
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 22:03

Originally posted by magavan

Salman al Farsi was a traitor, he created Islam for his own revenge against zoroastrism . Islam has the same bases of zoroastrism: adam and eve, after life, paradise/evil...

oh magavan

you are desperate  about this 

anyway if you remember you've been warned before and admin and other mods are not seeing any improvements in your posts so just becarefull

about salam alfarisi , you keep puting this subject in most of the threads i dont know is it because you dont know much or you want a discussion about it?!

i dont know what this has to do with islamic mistakes and what it has to do with king fahd? !!

since iam bord and have some spare time i will offer you a deal,  you open a new thread and call it something like  "salman alfarisi father of islam" and put your argument there and i will discuss it with you just for fun, and please keep up with forum policy and dont start accusing people of being ignorant without any proofs of that.so far many has prooved that you are ignorat, but well if you care about posting in this forum avoid insulting others.

and this is a site which you may get help from since its your dream site

http://www.geocities.com/no_islam2000/

and if you want to make other posts about Taj Mahal was a Hindo Temple and was converted by shahjahan feel free with new thread and not breaching forum rules.

so do we have a deal magavan khatoon?

 

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 07:59

I dont think he would make positive comments about Shah Jehan, maybe because he was a Turk...

Anyway, all religions have these same elements, so calling all of them thecreation of the holy Zoroastrian race would be just funny. We had the Egyptian religion, and the earlier Mesopotamian religions with the same beliefs and symbolisms long before Zoroastrianism.

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  Quote derjagger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 08:54
uh as far as i understand we have no hope,some of us trying to continue old religon fights, some of us are annoncing a nation as a traitor, We are really idiot.
For me Worst Mistakes:
1)Closing the door of slamic ictihadt by mam- Gazali
2)Seyh-ul slams fetva n 1536 n Ottoman
about finishing experiments and observation in science
3)Rebellion of 1917
Unfortunately it caused founding of srael and maybe itt will crush slamic nations and will be our end
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 10:13
Originally posted by Arabian Falcon

I think that the worst mistake in Islamic History was when the muslims crossed Gibraltar and conquered Andalusia without thinking about its harsh stratigic position their (The Catholic kingdoms from North and the Muslims Back was only the sea) ...


I don't fully agree. I believe that if Muslims would have stopped around the Pyrenees (which are impassable but at the extremes) and signed alliance with Basques, we would have glandly helped to defend their northern border in exchange of protection against the Franks and the last remnants of the Goths... but they thought that they had the divine right to conquer everything... and obviously it didn't work.

Still, the Caliphate of Cordoba was very solid until it simply disintegrated in 1031. The new fanatics that came from Africa later (Almoravids and Almohads) didn't have any chance.

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 15:06
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Anyway, all religions have these same elements, so calling all of them thecreation of the holy Zoroastrian race would be just funny. We had the Egyptian religion, and the earlier Mesopotamian religions with the same beliefs and symbolisms long before Zoroastrianism.

 

I am glad you know so much about this

I give you a few example of fundamental concepts that are similar between Zoroatranism and Islam:


Monotheistic creator

Devil or the evil sprit

Heaven and Hell

Judgment day with detailed level of process on how the people are judged with angeles holding scales

Angels

People going in circle around house of god

Some unique elements like the bridge that connects heaven and hell and changes in size depending on the faith of the person

Praying to god 5 times a day

having Friday as the sabbath

etc ..........................


 

Now can you give us some examples of ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamian core beliefs that are similar to Islam

 

 

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  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 16:05
Miller I dont think anyone has informed you but.

Islam was not created by Muhammed, Nor was it revealed by an Angel to Muhammed.

Islam began with Adam.

Submission to the One God 


If Islam is simmilar to Zoastrianism, Then that is because  we Muslims are told that to every people we sent a messenger and to every people clear signs.

The Egyptians chose to worship stones and then the sun and then their kings as his sons.


Babylonians (sumerians) were the earliest people to record their faith in their Enumma Elish, and in the place of Gods they began to diefy Planetary bodies, they then created a creation epic

the Zoeastrians had a God of Both Light , and One of Dark this is not monotheism, they did elaborate cleansing rituals, to include bowing towards firey altars.


Now in reference to Zoastrian links to earlier religion.

From the babylonian/sumerian creation epic the enuma elish.

a battle in heaven between the ancient gods and the old gods.

(from the bible a battle in heaven between Lucifer and St Micheal)

(the enuma elish talks about a great flood

Primitive man
apsu and adam
towers built high

(tower of babel)
An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 16:45

Originally posted by Al Bedawi

Miller I dont think anyone has informed you but.

Islam was not created by Muhammed, Nor was it revealed by an Angel to Muhammed.

Islam began with Adam.

Submission to the One God


If Islam is simmilar to Zoastrianism, Then that is because we Muslims are told that to every people we sent a messenger and to every people clear signs.


I think you got me wrong. I just said that there are detailed level and conceptual similarities that cannot be purely coincidental. I didn't mention anything about what the cause of these common elements were or if that means discrediting divinely of Islam. I have not found the answer yet but it seems you have found yours





Originally posted by Al Bedawi


the Zoeastrians had a God of Both Light , and One of Dark this is not monotheism, they did elaborate cleansing rituals, to include bowing towards firey altars.


That is myth mainly created by religious fundamentalist that get nervous each time this subject comes up. The the concept of God and Devil in Zrorastrnism is very similar to Islam/Christianity in detailed level. The only difference is that god is not the creator of evil, but god still is the supreme creator


Originally posted by Al Bedawi

The Egyptians chose to worship stones and then the sun and then their kings as his sons.


Yes, there is a big contrast isn't there

Originally posted by Al Bedawi


From the babylonian/sumerian creation epic the enuma elish.

a battle in heaven between the ancient gods and the old gods.


This exactly in contrast to Islam and Christianity with the concepts of multiple gods and heaven in yor statement is not the same as heaven in Islam and Christianity it referes to sky were gods lived



Originally posted by Al Bedawi

Primitive man
apsu and adam
towers built high


what is unique here?



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  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 22:43
not really as Eloha (God) and Elohim (sons of God a Plural for God) are the hebrew words used.

Zoastrianism Like all Non Islamic Faiths was corrupted by man.

the Root of Zoastrianism is Islam which was submission to the One True God

Much later man changed it , It is only Todays Islam with an Infalible book which is pure.


and please dont say such things as youve found your anwser what about mine, Im a native english speaker, I cant make this any simpler for you.
An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 23:30

 

guys this thread is about Islamic mistaks not about Zoroatranism and its relation to Islam.

if you are intrested enough open a new thread about it and i'll be happy to join.

 

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 00:18
 

OK , I won't continue the discussion


Oguzoglu made an statement, but it seems that he could not substantiate what he said and had to run away anyhow...

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 07:01

 

well you can continue on a new thread  if you want

but anyway i may dig up an old thread and start this again and i think you will be there as usual

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 09:05

Oguzoglu made an statement, but it seems that he could not substantiate what he said and had to run away anyhow...

Dont worry buddy, I am getting ready to open a topic about that...

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:20
Turkey betrayed  the Armenian Nation !!
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