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Moustafa Pasha
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Topic: Worst mistake in the islamic history? Posted: 01-Aug-2005 at 21:08 |
Caliph Osman Ibn Affan was killed by mutineers in 656 AD and a strugle for the succssession ensued between Ali Ibn Abu Talib the cousin and son in-law of Prohet Mohamed,peace be upon him and Muawiya Ibn Abu Suffian Governor Of Damascus.In the meantime Caliph Ali Was eleced In Mecca.
In 658 Caliph Ali's forces met Muawiya's and after a short fight Muawiya suggested arbitration to choose who will be Caliph.
Most of Ali's army agreed to arbitration while others in his army regarded this as a betrayal and a group of 12000 men repudiated his cause leaving both sides to fight it out.They became known as Khawarij.
Caliph Ali was assassinated in his new Capital Kufain 661 by a Kharijite zealot.That was the start of the Shia branch of Islam,who venerate him a second only to the prophet.
After Ali's death Muawiya subdued Iraq and then formally established himself as caliph and,transferred the capital of the Moslem Empire at Dmascus.
Muawiya made the mistake of emulating Byzantine hereditary royal tradition and annouced that his son will be the next caliph.
I consider this as the biggest mistake of Islam, which started by electing democratically its Leaders and ended by having a heditary system of leadership wich was copied from a corrupt Byzantine State.
Edited by Moustafa Pasha
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magavan
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Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 06:21 |
The worst Mistake is Salman Al Farsi, Father of Islam.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 07:11 |
Maybe It is you worst mistake of Islam, created by your family.
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Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 16:42 |
allowing the Turks into Islam. |
No, maybe allowing your kind of Arabs exist. We had to power to erase them from the face of earth you know.
The worst mistake in Islam is later Ottomans trying to get rid of all Alevis and being enemies with its Turkmen population. But whatever, I love Ottoman Empire...
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Mortaza
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Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 16:48 |
Oguzoglu
well they are supporting Shah of Iran. or I am wrong?
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Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 17:19 |
Well, considering that the builders of the Safavid Empire were these exiled Alevis, yes, they were supporting themselves against Ottoman authority.
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magavan
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Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 14:01 |
Salman al Farsi was a traitor, he created Islam for his own revenge against zoroastrism . Islam has the same bases of zoroastrism: adam and eve, after life, paradise/evil...
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azimuth
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Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 22:03 |
Originally posted by magavan
Salman al Farsi was a traitor, he created Islam for his own revenge against zoroastrism . Islam has the same bases of zoroastrism: adam and eve, after life, paradise/evil... |
oh magavan
you are desperate about this
anyway if you remember you've been warned before and admin and other mods are not seeing any improvements in your posts so just becarefull 
about salam alfarisi , you keep puting this subject in most of the threads i dont know is it because you dont know much or you want a discussion about it?!
i dont know what this has to do with islamic mistakes and what it has to do with king fahd? !!
since iam bord and have some spare time i will offer you a deal, you open a new thread and call it something like "salman alfarisi father of islam" and put your argument there and i will discuss it with you just for fun, and please keep up with forum policy and dont start accusing people of being ignorant without any proofs of that.so far many has prooved that you are ignorat, but well if you care about posting in this forum avoid insulting others.
and this is a site which you may get help from since its your dream site
http://www.geocities.com/no_islam2000/
and if you want to make other posts about Taj Mahal was a Hindo Temple and was converted by shahjahan feel free with new thread and not breaching forum rules.
so do we have a deal magavan khatoon?

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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 07:59 |
I dont think he would make positive comments about Shah Jehan, maybe because he was a Turk...
Anyway, all religions have these same elements, so calling all of them thecreation of the holy Zoroastrian race would be just funny. We had the Egyptian religion, and the earlier Mesopotamian religions with the same beliefs and symbolisms long before Zoroastrianism.
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derjagger
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 08:54 |
uh as far as i understand we have no hope,some of us trying to continue old religon fights, some of us are annoncing a nation as a traitor, We are really idiot.
For me Worst Mistakes:
1)Closing the door of slamic ictihadt by mam- Gazali
2)Seyh-ul slams fetva n 1536 n Ottoman
about finishing experiments and observation in science
3)Rebellion of 1917
Unfortunately it caused founding of srael and maybe itt will crush slamic nations and will be our end
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Maju
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 10:13 |
Originally posted by Arabian Falcon
I think that the worst mistake in Islamic History was when the muslims crossed Gibraltar
and conquered Andalusia without thinking about its
harsh stratigic position their (The Catholic kingdoms from North
and the Muslims Back was only the sea) ... |
I don't fully agree. I believe that if Muslims would have stopped
around the Pyrenees (which are impassable but at the extremes) and
signed alliance with Basques, we would have glandly helped to defend
their northern border in exchange of protection against the Franks and
the last remnants of the Goths... but they thought that they had the
divine right to conquer everything... and obviously it didn't work.
Still, the Caliphate of Cordoba was very solid until it simply
disintegrated in 1031. The new fanatics that came from Africa later
(Almoravids and Almohads) didn't have any chance.
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Miller
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 15:06 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
Anyway, all religions have these same elements, so calling all of them thecreation of the holy Zoroastrian race would be just funny. We had the Egyptian religion, and the earlier Mesopotamian religions with the same beliefs and symbolisms long before Zoroastrianism.
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I am glad you know so much about this
I give you a few example of fundamental concepts that are similar between Zoroatranism and Islam:
Monotheistic creator
Devil or the evil sprit
Heaven and Hell
Judgment day with detailed level of process on how the people are judged with angeles holding scales
Angels
People going in circle around house of god
Some unique elements like the bridge that connects heaven and hell and changes in size depending on the faith of the person
Praying to god 5 times a day
having Friday as the sabbath
etc ..........................
Now can you give us some examples of ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamian core beliefs that are similar to Islam
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Al Bedawi
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 16:05 |
Miller I dont think anyone has informed you but.
Islam was not created by Muhammed, Nor was it revealed by an Angel to Muhammed.
Islam began with Adam.
Submission to the One God
If Islam is simmilar to Zoastrianism, Then that is because we
Muslims are told that to every people we sent a messenger and to every
people clear signs.
The Egyptians chose to worship stones and then the sun and then their kings as his sons.
Babylonians (sumerians) were the earliest people to record their faith
in their Enumma Elish, and in the place of Gods they began to diefy
Planetary bodies, they then created a creation epic
the Zoeastrians had a God of Both Light , and One of Dark this is not
monotheism, they did elaborate cleansing rituals, to include bowing
towards firey altars.
Now in reference to Zoastrian links to earlier religion.
From the babylonian/sumerian creation epic the enuma elish.
a battle in heaven between the ancient gods and the old gods.
(from the bible a battle in heaven between Lucifer and St Micheal)
(the enuma elish talks about a great flood
Primitive man
apsu and adam
towers built high
(tower of babel)
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An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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Miller
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 16:45 |
Originally posted by Al Bedawi
Miller I dont think anyone has informed you but.
Islam was not created by Muhammed, Nor was it revealed by an Angel to Muhammed.
Islam began with Adam.
Submission to the One God
If Islam is simmilar to Zoastrianism, Then that is because we Muslims are told that to every people we sent a messenger and to every people clear signs.
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I think you got me wrong. I just said that there are detailed level and conceptual similarities that cannot be purely coincidental. I didn't mention anything about what the cause of these common elements were or if that means discrediting divinely of Islam. I have not found the answer yet but it seems you have found yours
Originally posted by Al Bedawi
the Zoeastrians had a God of Both Light , and One of Dark this is not monotheism, they did elaborate cleansing rituals, to include bowing towards firey altars.
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That is myth mainly created by religious fundamentalist that get nervous each time this subject comes up. The the concept of God and Devil in Zrorastrnism is very similar to Islam/Christianity in detailed level. The only difference is that god is not the creator of evil, but god still is the supreme creator
Originally posted by Al Bedawi
The Egyptians chose to worship stones and then the sun and then their kings as his sons.
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Yes, there is a big contrast isn't there
Originally posted by Al Bedawi
From the babylonian/sumerian creation epic the enuma elish.
a battle in heaven between the ancient gods and the old gods.
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This exactly in contrast to Islam and Christianity with the concepts of multiple gods and heaven in yor statement is not the same as heaven in Islam and Christianity it referes to sky were gods lived
Originally posted by Al Bedawi
Primitive man apsu and adam towers built high
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what is unique here?
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Al Bedawi
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 22:43 |
not really as Eloha (God) and Elohim (sons of God a Plural for God) are the hebrew words used.
Zoastrianism Like all Non Islamic Faiths was corrupted by man.
the Root of Zoastrianism is Islam which was submission to the One True God
Much later man changed it , It is only Todays Islam with an Infalible book which is pure.
and please dont say such things as youve found your anwser what about
mine, Im a native english speaker, I cant make this any simpler for you.
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An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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azimuth
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Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 23:30 |
guys this thread is about Islamic mistaks not about Zoroatranism and its relation to Islam.
if you are intrested enough open a new thread about it and i'll be happy to join.
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Miller
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Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 00:18 |
OK , I won't continue the discussion
Oguzoglu made an statement, but it seems that he could not substantiate what he said and had to run away anyhow...
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azimuth
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Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 07:01 |
well you can continue on a new thread if you want
but anyway i may dig up an old thread and start this again and i think you will be there as usual 
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Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 09:05 |
Oguzoglu made an statement, but it seems that he could not substantiate what he said and had to run away anyhow... |
Dont worry buddy, I am getting ready to open a topic about that...
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Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:20 |
Turkey betrayed the Armenian Nation !!
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