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Worst mistake in the islamic history?

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Worst mistake in the islamic history?
    Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 08:13

Originally posted by Al Bedawi

not really as Eloha (God) and Elohim (sons of God a Plural for God) are the hebrew words used.

Zoastrianism Like all Non Islamic Faiths was corrupted by man.

the Root of Zoastrianism is Islam which was submission to the One True God

Much later man changed it , It is only Todays Islam with an Infalible book which is pure.


and please dont say such things as youve found your anwser what about mine, Im a native english speaker, I cant make this any simpler for you.

How can the Qur'an at the same time promote equality but then tell you how your slave should be treated?

The Qur'an, I am sorry to say is just a tool of Arab imperialism, and how can Zaroastrianism possibly be based on the Qur'An? it was conceived at least 1500 years before Muhammad was even born!!!

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 06:11
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

 I called him Wahhab because he is it is clear I concluded that from his mind.

Don't compare between the great prophet(Pbuh) with bin abid alwahab .

Don't Assume next time. I otherwise, we have a forum of assumptions then. How about if I assumed you are of Failaqh Bader the fanatics because of your mind.  See? Assuming shall be kept personally inside.

Who said I compared between the Prophet PBUH and Ibn Abdul Wahab? All what I compared was the process of naming due to the lack of intellegence and cohesive understading of the true nature of things. Again and follow me this time:

Mohammedian> named for Muslims (Wrong Name, no one worship the prophet)

Wahabis> Named for Saudis (Wrong Name, no one worship Ibn Abudl Wahab).

   Understand now? Let us end it here...thank you

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 05:55

 I called him Wahhab because he is it is clear I concluded that from his mind.

Don't compare between the great prophet(Pbuh) with bin abid alwahab .

 

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 05:19

Well, I grew knowing that Im hanbali, a sunni school of thought you know. To call someone Wahabi is not better than calling a Muslim Muhammedian. Muslim never worship Muhammed Peace Be Upon Him, and no Saudi worship Muhammed bin Abdul Wahab. I don't know why people are called by names others than what they chose to be called by?

P.S: I checked his profile too, his name is not Wahabi. Do you have your glasses nearby?

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 03:44
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

They were not first shia.

you wrong wahabi man

I understand some of you might carry deep inside them some feeling of guilts and betrayel of 1400 years ago, but please show some respect and stop calling others by disrespectful names. If he said they were the first shia, can you prove the opposite or just set down and type an insult?

Ok,But as all muslims knows the Khwarij were not the first Shia what is the relation between Khwarij and Shia they are totaly different,Khwarijs were against Imam Ali(PBUH) and Shia are his companion,followers and supporterthen he must check before he talked about event he didn't know about it,About the deep feeling it is honor to us,All inlegal Goverment tried to destroy us but we survived by the power of God,In addition he is Wahhabi because that is his name if you consider it unrespectful name I don't.
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 23:16
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

They were not first shia.

you wrong wahabi man

I understand some of you might carry deep inside them some feeling of guilts and betrayel of 1400 years ago, but please show some respect and stop calling others by disrespectful names. If he said they were the first shia, can you prove the opposite or just set down and type an insult?

D.J. Kaufman
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:56
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:53
Mortaza, dont...
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:36
well we think It otherway, but this is between you(Armenians) and (turks)us.It  has no relation with Islam. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 09:20
Turkey betrayed  the Armenian Nation !!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 09:05

Oguzoglu made an statement, but it seems that he could not substantiate what he said and had to run away anyhow...

Dont worry buddy, I am getting ready to open a topic about that...

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 07:01

 

well you can continue on a new thread  if you want

but anyway i may dig up an old thread and start this again and i think you will be there as usual

 

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 00:18
 

OK , I won't continue the discussion


Oguzoglu made an statement, but it seems that he could not substantiate what he said and had to run away anyhow...

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 23:30

 

guys this thread is about Islamic mistaks not about Zoroatranism and its relation to Islam.

if you are intrested enough open a new thread about it and i'll be happy to join.

 

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  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 22:43
not really as Eloha (God) and Elohim (sons of God a Plural for God) are the hebrew words used.

Zoastrianism Like all Non Islamic Faiths was corrupted by man.

the Root of Zoastrianism is Islam which was submission to the One True God

Much later man changed it , It is only Todays Islam with an Infalible book which is pure.


and please dont say such things as youve found your anwser what about mine, Im a native english speaker, I cant make this any simpler for you.
An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 16:45

Originally posted by Al Bedawi

Miller I dont think anyone has informed you but.

Islam was not created by Muhammed, Nor was it revealed by an Angel to Muhammed.

Islam began with Adam.

Submission to the One God


If Islam is simmilar to Zoastrianism, Then that is because we Muslims are told that to every people we sent a messenger and to every people clear signs.


I think you got me wrong. I just said that there are detailed level and conceptual similarities that cannot be purely coincidental. I didn't mention anything about what the cause of these common elements were or if that means discrediting divinely of Islam. I have not found the answer yet but it seems you have found yours





Originally posted by Al Bedawi


the Zoeastrians had a God of Both Light , and One of Dark this is not monotheism, they did elaborate cleansing rituals, to include bowing towards firey altars.


That is myth mainly created by religious fundamentalist that get nervous each time this subject comes up. The the concept of God and Devil in Zrorastrnism is very similar to Islam/Christianity in detailed level. The only difference is that god is not the creator of evil, but god still is the supreme creator


Originally posted by Al Bedawi

The Egyptians chose to worship stones and then the sun and then their kings as his sons.


Yes, there is a big contrast isn't there

Originally posted by Al Bedawi


From the babylonian/sumerian creation epic the enuma elish.

a battle in heaven between the ancient gods and the old gods.


This exactly in contrast to Islam and Christianity with the concepts of multiple gods and heaven in yor statement is not the same as heaven in Islam and Christianity it referes to sky were gods lived



Originally posted by Al Bedawi

Primitive man
apsu and adam
towers built high


what is unique here?



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  Quote Al Bedawi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 16:05
Miller I dont think anyone has informed you but.

Islam was not created by Muhammed, Nor was it revealed by an Angel to Muhammed.

Islam began with Adam.

Submission to the One God 


If Islam is simmilar to Zoastrianism, Then that is because  we Muslims are told that to every people we sent a messenger and to every people clear signs.

The Egyptians chose to worship stones and then the sun and then their kings as his sons.


Babylonians (sumerians) were the earliest people to record their faith in their Enumma Elish, and in the place of Gods they began to diefy Planetary bodies, they then created a creation epic

the Zoeastrians had a God of Both Light , and One of Dark this is not monotheism, they did elaborate cleansing rituals, to include bowing towards firey altars.


Now in reference to Zoastrian links to earlier religion.

From the babylonian/sumerian creation epic the enuma elish.

a battle in heaven between the ancient gods and the old gods.

(from the bible a battle in heaven between Lucifer and St Micheal)

(the enuma elish talks about a great flood

Primitive man
apsu and adam
towers built high

(tower of babel)
An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 15:06
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Anyway, all religions have these same elements, so calling all of them thecreation of the holy Zoroastrian race would be just funny. We had the Egyptian religion, and the earlier Mesopotamian religions with the same beliefs and symbolisms long before Zoroastrianism.

 

I am glad you know so much about this

I give you a few example of fundamental concepts that are similar between Zoroatranism and Islam:


Monotheistic creator

Devil or the evil sprit

Heaven and Hell

Judgment day with detailed level of process on how the people are judged with angeles holding scales

Angels

People going in circle around house of god

Some unique elements like the bridge that connects heaven and hell and changes in size depending on the faith of the person

Praying to god 5 times a day

having Friday as the sabbath

etc ..........................


 

Now can you give us some examples of ancient Egyptians and Mesopotamian core beliefs that are similar to Islam

 

 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 10:13
Originally posted by Arabian Falcon

I think that the worst mistake in Islamic History was when the muslims crossed Gibraltar and conquered Andalusia without thinking about its harsh stratigic position their (The Catholic kingdoms from North and the Muslims Back was only the sea) ...


I don't fully agree. I believe that if Muslims would have stopped around the Pyrenees (which are impassable but at the extremes) and signed alliance with Basques, we would have glandly helped to defend their northern border in exchange of protection against the Franks and the last remnants of the Goths... but they thought that they had the divine right to conquer everything... and obviously it didn't work.

Still, the Caliphate of Cordoba was very solid until it simply disintegrated in 1031. The new fanatics that came from Africa later (Almoravids and Almohads) didn't have any chance.

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  Quote derjagger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 08:54
uh as far as i understand we have no hope,some of us trying to continue old religon fights, some of us are annoncing a nation as a traitor, We are really idiot.
For me Worst Mistakes:
1)Closing the door of slamic ictihadt by mam- Gazali
2)Seyh-ul slams fetva n 1536 n Ottoman
about finishing experiments and observation in science
3)Rebellion of 1917
Unfortunately it caused founding of srael and maybe itt will crush slamic nations and will be our end
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