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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: will religions join with the returning of
    Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 08:48
There are stipulations on many beliefs. In general, Islam has one unforgivable sin and that is not to believe in God alone.
 
5:69 "Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabiens, and the Nazarenes; whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve."
 
According to Islam mercy is attained by divine grace and repentance.


Edited by Seko - 25-Jul-2006 at 08:48
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 09:18
I was told by quite a reputable source, that infact Jesus died like all men the prophet which will come is not Jesus Confused
 
Also that the, stoning of the devil, in the Holy Lands is not necessary as its not instructed in the Holy Books and that we cannot see Sheytan so what are we stoning, in other words he said it was an innovation Confused
 
The confusing part for non-Muslims is understanding that in Islamic belief all the prophets were Muslim as they submitted to the one true god. Ever since the time's of Adam and Eve there have been Muslisms (those who submit to god) as there have been many monothiest religions, which were later corrupted then later the true path was shown again....
 
I think its somthing like this anyway.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2006 at 11:27
Originally posted by Nestorian

Can someone show me a Sura where it says Christians, Jews and Muslims will go Paradise? I hear different things from different types of Muslims - some good, some not so good. Just curious thats all.

Nestorian.

 
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in God and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon then nor shall they grieve. "
 
[2:69] Translation by Yusuf Ali
 
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  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2006 at 10:07

HugThanks guys for putting in the effort for finding the Sura!!

Big thumbs up. !!
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2006 at 10:25
Originally posted by Aarya

      Go on go with the supreme Islamic idocacy which is devoid of reason and rationale, to hold such ideologies as something given by god ,is like deamening the very god....

It seems the poster of this thread is suggestign a Genocide against non muslims, and non christians. These burgers of desert originators quest for annihlation of civilization didnt died down still. They seemed to wipe out the last living religions of the World, The chinese and the Indian...
   It is absurd that jews will be united in this joint crusade of Christinas and Mulsim on the World.....Jews will nto be part of it and no sane person would be....that is a fact...
Regardign Jesus coming down or someone :
                   
in such case it is damn sure that such a person will first send the missionaries and their funders to hell, then he will ananihlate every muslim that pledges to follow the life of Mohamamd. that is damn sure....Becoz if he is any god material he will not tolerate the iratioanlity and absurdity of Quran.
    
       Beleif and faith is ur foundation, go on and on, truth alone truimphs, and Histopry will remain testimony of what Islam was......
    

 
you have violated AE rules in your post above (marked red) by making;
 
6. Nationalism, derogatory remarks to national or ethnic groups, jingoism, bigotry, racism, political propaganda
 
 
consider this as unofficial warning (advice) to you,
 
 
 
 
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thanks.
 
 


Edited by azimuth - 26-Jul-2006 at 10:36
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 09:47

Originally posted by ahmetcelik

It is a fact that those centres of power that have religion and its moral values in their sights have combined the wide opportunities at their disposal and are acting in alliance against people who have religious beliefs. It is actually not that difficult to destroy, in the ideological sense, that wicked alliance, to eliminate the negative and destructive effects of atheist- materialist indoctrination,

 

That's just a form of  that pathology called conspiracy theory. There is no one that have in his sight the religion; the morals of religion are partially simply dusty, and the society act consequently.

 

and to bring about a society where proper morality, happiness, peace, security and well-being prevail. The one way of doing that lies in the three revealed religions (Islam, Judaism and Christianity) joining forces in the light of that common objective.chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"

 

Every time religion and religious people had the occasion of creating this "society where proper morality, happiness, peace, security and well-being prevail", they put effectively the hell on earth. Just look what islamic countries has to offer to their citizens, and read how the middle age looked like. Striving for a more moral society is legitimate ideal for all of us, but that's not excluding acting with intelligence. The religions rely on moral concepts imagined by people in ancient times, because these moral concepts are unfortunately blocked to evolve by their dogmatic status, that by definition imply there is no need to update. But we know it is, and that simple fact is illustrated by the reality that today people tend to go and live where human laws are in force and leaving those countries where the so-called "laws of god" are preferred.

 

The task of sincere Christians, Jews and Muslims who possess a conscience and common sense is to wage a joint struggle against evil and those who engage in it, to help one another and to act in a spirit of unity and cooperation. That unity must rest on the principles of love, respect, tolerance, understanding, harmony and cooperation. We must bear in mind the urgency of the situation, and factors likely to give rise to conflict, argument and division must be scrupulously avoided.

 

Evil has multiple faces, its not only materialism or atheism (they too can be labeled as "evil" in certain conditions) . . .  

Evil too is killing people for not complying your god(s will), or discriminating people because of an obscure text from VIth century imbued with tribal morals tell you so, etc.  

 

 

Here, Jews, Christians and Muslims are called to join in the light of common objectives to wage a joint struggle against atheism, social and moral degeneration, and to spread good morals throughout the world. This call is to all the sincere, scrupulous, benevolent, agreeable, decent, pacifist, and just Jews, Christians and Muslims.

 

Well, and how you envisage to fight moral degeneration peacefully (as it seems you suggest)? By prayers?  LOL Or by trying to convince atheists that there is really your divine SantaClaus? Confused 



Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 11:18
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 10:02
Originally posted by Bulldog

I was told by quite a reputable source, that infact Jesus died like all men the prophet which will come is not Jesus 
Also that the, stoning of the devil, in the Holy Lands is not necessary as its not instructed in the Holy Books and that we cannot see Sheytan so what are we stoning, in other words he said it was an innovation 
The confusing part for non-Muslims is understanding that in Islamic belief all the prophets were Muslim as they submitted to the one true god. Ever since the time's of Adam and Eve there have been Muslisms (those who submit to god) as there have been many monothiest religions, which were later corrupted then later the true path was shown again....
I think its somthing like this anyway.

 
Bulldog, you repeat an assertion made by many on page 2 and 1 . . . It is important to realize that simply asserting something means nothing if you
are not able to prove it. Only that Koran, or Bible said so, is no proof at all! We can accept it as a declaration of belief, but not as a fact!!!
So, if you expect that someone takes into account your conjecture that there was muslims before Muhamad conceived his "me-too" religion, you have to proceed producing evidence.
good luck! Wink


Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 10:04
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 10:32
Originally posted by Scorpius

Originally posted by Nestorian

Can someone show me a Sura where it says Christians, Jews and Muslims will go Paradise? I hear different things from different types of Muslims - some good, some not so good. Just curious thats all. Nestorian.
  
"Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in God and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon then nor shall they grieve. " 
[2:69] Translation by Yusuf Ali
 
Yeah, I guess the christians and the jews will be delighted by this sura . . . at least in the afterlife (if something like that exist Confused ) they'll be spared by muslims and their god that exhorts his fans to fight christians and jews till they pay jizza . . .
 
Koran 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
 
Hey, christians and jews there, feel "subdued", my friends, and especially happy! LOL


Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 10:36
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 11:11
Originally posted by HulaguHan

Guys do you seriously believe what you are talking about?Not being killed and walking over the skies?

Yes, my chinese brother, they believe it seriously and pityfull as it is, they are very seriously too when speaking to and trying convince others of their fairy tales . . .
 
out of the desert, and divided people. Killing more and more, fighting, destruction.
 
Before arabs had their late religous update by Muhammad, christians suffered a lot from division, killings and destruction brought by religion, and they were not necessarily in desert . . . Before christians, jews practised (and suffered) they too the mistreatment provoked by religion. If religion is something bad because is assertion witout proof, and often harmful irrational assertion without proof, the monotheism is worse as it is a sort of intolerant "dictatorship" among gods . . . All their "holy books" incite reciprocally their followers to kill those not believing "the only true god" . . .

Egypt, Ancient Greece was lost to that desert storm. Persia semi-revived. Only China, as an ancient civilzation lives...

Religion isn't the only evil in the world; it's just one big evil; greek (western) philosophy too was producing it's evilness in the very moment it was the easy pray for the semitic religious ideology . . .  
We have tough a lesson to learn from the sad experience of roman tolerance: one cannont play with fire undefinetelly and expect not to burn himself!
They, the romans, accepted any oriental cult and religion, as long as these religions permitted the practice of the cult of the emperor too (that was in fact a form of telling you that you can cherrish what god you want, provided that you accept the roman worldy political power and order).
Many religions were absorbed in this peculiar syncretic roman system, till one was so intolerant that it destroyed the very roman state and the most of the western knowledge of the time. It may happen the same with the actual multiculturalist west as the new roman empire, and with islam as the new judaist sect called christianism . . .


Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 11:28
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 13:13

Originally posted by Corlanx

All their "holy books" incite reciprocally their followers to kill those not believing "the only true god" . . .

 

"Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?"

[10:99]

 

"You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder.You have no power over them."

[88:21-22]

 

"There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."

[2:256]

 

Originally posted by Corlanx

Koran 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

Aren't you paying your Tax? I do not know about you but I am paying my tax. If I do not pay, IRS will kick the crap out of me  LOL

 

Another important issue the meaning of the word "fight" in that verse. In order to understand the true meaning, you have to know the answer to this question?

 

When do I need to fight?

 

"You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors."

[2:190]

 

GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:8]

 

Originally posted by Corlanx

Yes, my chinese brother, they believe it seriously and pityfull as it is, they are very seriously too when speaking to and trying convince others of their fairy tales . . . 

 

And for the record, I am not trying to convince you. Believe what you want to believe.

 

It is our freedom, our responsibility to choose how we live.

 

"We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant."

[33:72]



Edited by Scorpius - 28-Jul-2006 at 13:20
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 14:55

Originally posted by Scorpius

"Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?"[10:99]

 

Yes, that could be true . . . if your god "had willed", we all "would have believed" . . . but you know, someone in order to want something, has first to exist. As for now, your gods existence is more than unobvious . . .

 

 

 

"You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder.You have no power over them." [88:21-22]

 

Well, that not always true: Muhammad had a lot of power over those that he killed heartlessly for not following his religion . . .  So you are wrong, except the case this "remind" your god is speaking of, it doesent mean a meat chopper or a bomb, as ben laden so obvious seems to think . . .

 

 

Originally posted by Corlanx

Koran 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

Aren't you paying your Tax? I do not know about you but I am paying my tax. If I do not pay, IRS will kick the crap out of me

  

 

Well, my friend, it seems you fail to understand a lot of things . . . 

In fact, you are welcomed here, on a history forum, as maybe youll learn a thing or two;  e.g. that jizzia wasnt a tax for all people, but one "granted" by  muslim god specially for non-muslims.
As I see you are american, so I can correct you preposterous analogy between your taxes and jizzya, by saying that this religious rasist tax was something like U.S. imposing a tax on jews because they are jews, or muslims because they are muslims, or christians because they are christians, and not for paying some services the state offer to his citizen . . . Under the dhimmi law, my not-very-informed brother, often the christians were banned from having high ranking offices, they had no right to build new churches and the old ones needed approval in order to be renovated and they, the dhimi, had void testimony . . . Hopefully now, with my aid you grasp the real rasist sense of this islamic tax that jizzya was . . .
 

 

 

Another important issue the meaning of the word "fight" in that verse. In order to understand the true meaning, you have to know the answer to this question?

 

When do I need to fight?

 

"You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. "[2:190]

 
Brother, you seem well-intended, but you're deceived: If Muhammad or the islamic empire leaders that followed after him, were to follow this useless hollow words, there should have been NO islamic empire at all; this empire doesnt appeared from reactions to aggression, but by aggression: Persia never invaded Muhammads Arabia . . . Byzantine empire never attacked the arabs deep in peninsula or the turks in central asia . . . Are the arabs and the turks that invaded the estern region of the roman empire . . .  The meccans never attacked with weapons Muhammad; they simply did not want to convert to Muhammad's new cult! That was though not enough reason for him to prevent him attacking them and killing as more as it was necesssary to plunder them. . . The jews from Medina were expelled, their goods confiscated; they migrated to Kaibar; the prophet goes there to kill and dispossese them for the second time . . .
So, for the sake of your image here on the forum, please think twice before bringing into discussion the koranic words declared void by the muslims themselves . . .



Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 15:10
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 15:16

Corlanx

Jizyah was a Tax paid by non-muslims for their protection under islamic armies, that they were not allowed to participate in the armies, unlike mulsims who had to go fight protecting the islamic lands and people, non mulims had more chances practicing their business and making enough money as a subtitue of going to wars.
 
and Persia and the Romans DID attack Arabia and conquered parts of it.
 
i dont know whats your "agenda" by joing this forum, so far all your posts are either anti-arab or anti-islamic.
 
this forum is about history and may not be what you are looking for.
 
--------------------------
 
 
just a reminder to all members
 
this thread went slightly off topic, continuing on doing so will lead us to close this thread.
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 15:48
Originally posted by azimuth

Corlanx Jizyah was a Tax paid by non-muslims for their protection under islamic armies, that they were not allowed to participate in the armies, unlike mulsims who had to go fight protecting the islamic lands and people, non mulims had more chances practicing their business and making enough money as a subtitue of going to wars.
 
Protection of themselves, eh? LOL
Anyway, thanks azimuth for your very useful explanation . . .
 
 
and Persia and the Romans DID attack Arabia and conquered parts of it.
 
Oh yes!? Romans and persans attacked Muhammad? Prove it! 
Arabia was never a state (before Muhammad). So attacking what? Nommadic tribes? In fact, there was christian independent states on the frontier of the two empires allied with them. And if it is true there was arab states (like Yemen, e.g.), they were never attacked by bizantynes. And there was good reasons for that: the desert is of no importance, all the interest the big civilizations had there, was preventing nomadic tribes attacking their frontiers. And for that reason they created client states, that served as a buffer.  
 
i dont know whats your "agenda" by joing this forum, so far all your posts are either anti-arab or anti-islamic.
 
 
That's your opinion, my friend, and hopefully it'll not influence your attitude as moderator. Maybe in my opinion this forum is actually too pro-arabic, and that's not necessarily bad thing, the bad thing become when this attitude harm the truth. But that doesen't matter.
And besides that, there is nothing bad in having objections in what concerns arabs or islam. The idea is having them smart and truthfully. One can having objection to jews and there is no problem in that; important is that these objections express coherently a truth.
By the way, what's your "agenda"?
 
this forum is about history and may not be what you are looking for.
 
well, looking to the posts of your coreligionars and others till now, I am very surprised to learn that. Wink
And let me, please, choose what I'm looking for and what I'm not; don't be as religious people usualy are, telling others what they want and what's good for them . . .


Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 16:01
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 16:01

Originally posted by Corlanx

Originally posted by Scorpius

"Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?"[10:99]
  

Yes, that could be true . . . if your god "had willed", we all "would have believed" . . . but you know, someone in order to want something, has first to exist. As for now, your gods existence is more than unobvious . . .

There is one important issue here.

I believe in all holly books. I accept the scriptures as the words of God I believe. I see that you are not. So the argument is pointless regarding to this statement of yours.

 

"As for now, your gods existence is more than unobvious".

 

According to whom? It is your personal belief, not mine.

"You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder.You have no power over them." [88:21-22] 

Well, that not always true: Muhammad had a lot of power over those that he killed heartlessly for not following his religion . . .  So you are wrong, except the case this "remind" your god is speaking of, it doesent mean a meat chopper or a bomb, as ben laden so obvious seems to think . . .

I am not a follower of Muhammad. I am a follower of God and God only. I accept Muhammad as a messenger of God as I accept Jesus the same, and the messengers before them.

 

Bin Laden is/was an evil idiot. What and how he thought is irrelevant.

 

 

Well, my friend, it seems you fail to understand a lot of things . . . 

In fact, you are welcomed here, on a history forum, as maybe youll learn a thing or two;  e.g. that jizzia wasnt a tax for all people, but one "granted" by  muslim god specially for non-muslims.
As I see your are american, so I can correct you preposterous analogy between your taxes and jizzya, by saying that this religious rasist tax was something like U.S. imposing a tax on jews because they are jews, or muslims because they are muslims, or christians because they are christians, and not for paying some services the state offer to his citizen . . . Under the dhimmi law, my not-very-informed brother, often the christians were banned from having high ranking offices, they had no right to build new churches and the old ones needed approval in order to be renovated and they, the dhimi, had void testimony . . . Hopefully now, with my aid you grasp the real rasist sense of this islamic tax that jizzya was . . .

Maybe you need to dig more. For example:

Is/Are there any taxes Muslims had to pay only in that period of time?

 

And for the IRS issue, you have to dig even more. It is not important if you are taxed upon your religion or any other reason.

 

I work in an IT company (Software Architect). As you can guess, there are many people working in my department as hired professionals from different countries. They have to pay more Tax than I am paying because they are not citizens of United States of America (but residents). I guess the cost of employing a foreign programmer to the company is around $1000 more per month compared to me Big smile. But I maybe wrong about the exact figures. All I know is company has to pay more for them.

 

Another important issue the meaning of the word "fight" in that verse. In order to understand the true meaning, you have to know the answer to this question?

 

When do I need to fight?

"You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. "[2:190]

 
Brother, you seem well-intended, but you're deceived: If Muhammad or the islamic empire leaders that followed after him, were to follow this useless hollow words, there should have been NO islamic empire at all; this empire doesnt appeared from reactions to aggression, but by aggression: Persia never invaded Muhammads Arabia . . . Byzantine empire never attacked the arabs deep in peninsula or the turks in central asia . . . Are the arabs and the turks that invaded the estern region of the roman empire . . .  The meccans never attacked with weapons Muhammad; they simply did not want to convert to Muhammad's new cult! That was though not enough reason for him to prevent him attacking them and killing as more as it was necesssary to plunder them. . . The jews from Medina were expelled, their goods confiscated; they migrated to Kaibar; the prophet goes there to kill and dispossese them for the second time . .

Yes, I am well-intended. Thank you for your kind observation.
 
You are talking about what people did ( I am not even arguing that the history you are telling is correct, may correct, or not).

 

I am talking about, according to Islam, which path the people are guided not the way they behaved. I hope you understand the difference.

 

So, for your image here on the forum, please think twice before bringing into discussion the koranic words declared void by the muslims themselves . . .

 

If you read again my posts in this thread you will see that I answered a question using Quaran because the owner of the question asked us to do so. That means I am asked from a follower of the topic to answer his question using Quaran.

 

And if you read again my posts in this very thread, I answer you with Quaran, because you used and quoted Quaran to demonstrate your point.

 

Isn't it ironic?

 
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Edited by Scorpius - 28-Jul-2006 at 16:05
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 16:28

 

"As for now, your gods existence is more than unobvious".

 According to whom? It is your personal belief, not mine.

My friend, we are speaking here about existence, not believing in existence . . .  An existence is something to be found, not something to be claimed or believed in! Kant can help you with that, and by the way, any book that is treating logic/philosopy.

Well, that not always true: Muhammad had a lot of power over those that he killed heartlessly for not following his religion . . .  So you are wrong, except the case this "remind" your god is speaking of, it doesent mean a meat chopper or a bomb, as ben laden so obvious seems to think . . .

I am not a follower of Muhammad. I am a follower of God and God only. I accept Muhammad as a messenger of God as I accept Jesus the same, and the messengers before them.

 

So why believing Muhammads words (concering God) if you see above that hes not following the very words he claims God told him!?

Bin Laden is/was an evil idiot. What and how he thought is irrelevant.

Well, maybe hes a patriot.  At least that's what he seems to think and many arabs too . . . Maybe hes blinded by his religion, but any sincere follower of any religion could be: religion is not about knowing, but believing; so, one can easely err . . . 

 

Well, my friend, it seems you fail to understand a lot of things . . .  In fact, you are welcomed here, on a history forum, as maybe youll learn a thing or two;  e.g. that jizzia wasnt a tax for all people, but one "granted" by  muslim god specially for non-muslims.
As I see your are american, so I can correct you preposterous analogy between your taxes and jizzya, by saying that this religious rasist tax was something like U.S. imposing a tax on jews because they are jews, or muslims because they are muslims, or christians because they are christians, and not for paying some services the state offer to his citizen . . . Under the dhimmi law, my not-very-informed brother, often the christians were banned from having high ranking offices, they had no right to build new churches and the old ones needed approval in order to be renovated and they, the dhimi, had void testimony . . . Hopefully now, with my aid you grasp the real rasist sense of this islamic tax that jizzya was . . .

Maybe you need to dig more. For example: Is/Are there any taxes Muslims had to pay only in that period of time?

 

 Shocked You ask me? I expect that YOU show me if something rasist like that exist!

 

And for the IRS issue, you have to dig even more. It is not important if you are taxed upon your religion or any other reason.  I work in an IT company (Software Architect). As you can guess, there are many people working in my department as hired professionals from different countries. They have to pay more Tax than I am paying because they are not citizens of <ST1:COUNTRY-REGIoN w:st="on">United States of America</ST1:COUNTRY-REGIoN> (but residents). I guess the cost of employing a foreign programmer to the company is around $1000 more per month compared to me . But I maybe wrong about the exact figures. All I know is company has to pay more for them.

I can dig a year or many, but you can never convince me that you are really serious when saying that it is not important if one is taxed for being religious . . .  In case though you are serios, I have to addmit you are rasist. In fact, if you really want to know what happen in your happy country, the facts are exactly conversely: religious people levy a taxes from non-religious, as the unjust kosher system of the sly jews show us. BILLIONS yearly!!!!!! Yes, they're taxing us for no service to us, and frequently without people knowing it . . .

 

You are talking about what people did ( I am not even arguing that the history you are telling is correct, may correct, or not). I am talking about, according to Islam, which path the people are guided not the way they behaved. I hope you understand the difference.

Yes, I can understand that and even I accept it, my only problem is how can somone take as genuine the words of God retold by one that is acting not according them . . . So, what is for you the guarantee that the wrong-maker is not a liar too? Confused



Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 16:35
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 16:44
This topic has veered off from, Will religion join with the returning of Jesus, to an attack on Islam. Let's stay on topic. Especially Corlanx.

Edited by Seko - 28-Jul-2006 at 16:46
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:12
As a muslim it's my duty to say to other muslims that jezus was not a muslim but a jew or a christian. Muslim or Islam is the new "religion" (don't know how to say this).muslims believe that the other two religions got corrupted scripture and practice so it needs top bee be revived. Sorry to brake it down but why are the jews called jews if there^prophets were muslim. Islam is just a name. According two all abrahmic there allways was a religion who believed in the one true God.
 
I knopw that a lot of people aren't going to agree with me or think that <I'm crazy.
 
I think there is only one religion the abrahamic religion and judaism christianity and Islam are just branches of that one religion who believes in the one true God.
 
Btw jezus will return in the damascus syria place called sam or sham don't know it in english thow.
 
We as believers in the true one God are one of the sdumbest people we allways are fighting eachother wile we are allmost the same in religion.
I think It has more to due with culture and race than religion. Religion is just a good tool to wage wars and kill people.
 
are the people who follow abrahamic relgions the only ones who try to force there religion on other people or what?
 
when did thsi fenomenon started. the jews didn't want any non hebrews when did this change?
 
Well may Jaweh God or Allah (its the same being) bless you.
 
Do youknow what a realy hate some racist belittle or even insult the name Allah how dumb can you be tou can argue with Islam but how can you argue wit a name of God your insulting your own God how stupid can you be
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:33
Sorry to break your bubble but past prophets that believed in the singularity of God were called to surrender to Him. They were Submitters. al-islamideenan.
3:85 And whoever follows other than surrender as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
 
 
 
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  Quote Corlanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:49

trying to reply to xi_tujue, hoping not being again considered "off-topic" . . .

 

Originally posted by xi_tujue

are the people who follow abrahamic relgions the only ones who try to force there religion on other people or what?

 

Maybe not. Anyway, they are the champions, as history pathetically is showing us . . .

In fact, judaism, the first abrahamic religion, was an ethnic and rasist religion (and stayed so till today): as the big religious and religion historian etienne gilson put it, the god of jews is the god of jews, not the god of humanity; but that is better explained by other historians of religion, that tell us how jews monollatry became a monotheism. Its about history, their history  . . . They saw to which extent they were impotent and that was obviously in contradiction with the monollatrious view that their god was bigger than the neighbours one. So, they did choose to consider that there is in fact just one god, their's, and this god punish them for some unknown and obscure (and often stupid) reason . . . As example, because when asserting something is already good to explain and bring arguments in support, I can say that jewish religious book is painting in black colors the jewish state (of north) and their leaders that succeded being strong and developed, but painting in good colors the poor, backward and underdeveloped state (of south), that for a while succeded to survive, enough time for creating the biblical text and his "southern" ideology.

The first religious universalism was the christianism (if not considering buddhism a religion). Islam followed. As universalist religion, they are more dangerous than judaism was, as any universalist ideology (liberalism, e.g.) is, because is intruding the others lives.

 

when did thsi fenomenon started. the jews didn't want any non hebrews when did this change?

 

I've said already. The christianism as a sect of judaism evolved in a period where the jewish culture was in close contact with the hellenistic and roman world. Alexander's hellenism was the first universalist ideology that spread untill India, and by the greekobuddhism far beyond, in China and Japan. Paul, the "ideologue" of christianism, but Jesus too, had a universalist view. They tried and succeded to pass the ethnic frontiers of judaism, and spread as many other religions have done before, in the roman world. It is more to say than that, but maybe I'm off-topic already  . . . Confused



Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 18:02
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:54
Don't worry about your latest post Corlanx. You not only stayed within the confines of the topic, since you reponded about a concern from another, but you were pretty mature about it too. Smile

Edited by Seko - 28-Jul-2006 at 17:54
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