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Origins of the Afghans
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Zagros View Drop Down
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Origins of the Afghans
    Posted: 04-Apr-2006 at 11:05
topic re-opened at Afghanan's request.
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2006 at 21:19
Thank you Zagros, maybe next thing to do is to delete all the non-discussion posts that wasted a few pages? 
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Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 00:50

I just wonder about some connections of the Pahtuns with Huns (present day Uyghur or other Turkic people). The following is some linguistic analysis. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Afghan and Aqhon (The people who built Eftalit empire, the name of which is very popular among Uyghur Turks to add at the end of male name)  

Eftalit and abdal (one of the Tura tribes according to the chinese chronicals)

Huar and Avar (also one of the Tura tribes)

Tura tribes were the descendants of Huns according to Chinese chronicals, including Uyghur, Oghuz etc.  

Pushtu people call themselves Pahtun, and the place as Pahtunhua.

Pahta is cotton in Uyghur, which is related to white colour. Pahthun can be changed as Pahtun. Then can we find relation between Pahtun and Aqhun?

Saka means real brother in Pahtun. There were many places in Uyghur region which are called as Ikkisaq (Two Saks), Oghusaq (Oghuz sak), Toqquzaq (nine saks) etc.

Lastly, Many pahtun people add Khan at the end of their names, which was characteristics of Huns or also present day Uyghur and other Turkic peoples.

 
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 04:11

Afghan and Aqhon (The people who built Eftalit empire, the name of which is very popular among Uyghur Turks to add at the end of male name)

The name "Aqhon" probably has no bearing on the Ephthalites.  In the west, the Ephthalites were also called "White Huns" which looks like a transliteration on "Aqhon".    In the east they were called Hayathelites by the Persians, Ye-tai by the Chinese, and simply Hunas by the Indians, but no eastern source called them "White Huns".  The personal name "Aqhon" must therefore have another etymology.

Eftalit and abdal (one of the Tura tribes according to the chinese chronicals)

Again, the Chinese called them Ye-tai.

Huar and Avar (also one of the Tura tribes)

The Chinese called the eastern "Avars" the Ruruan.  As for them being Turkic, the evidence suggest that they were Mongolic of speech, not Turkic.

Tura tribes were the descendants of Huns according to Chinese chronicals, including Uyghur, Oghuz etc.

The real "Tura" tribes were Iranic-speaking, not Turkic-speaking.  "Tura" or "Turan" is merely a borrowing from Persian sources for "eurasian nomad", which during the time of the earliest Iranian history were Iranic-speaking nomads. 

Pushtu people call themselves Pahtun, and the place as Pahtunhua.

Pahta is cotton in Uyghur, which is related to white colour. Pahthun can be changed as Pahtun. Then can we find relation between Pahtun and Aqhun?

No.  We actually have a correlation between "Pahtun" and the name of an ancient Afghani mountain tribe known to classical Greek historians as the Pactyans.  There were first attested by Herodotus about 430 BC.  This would be more than 200 years before the Hun expansion from Mongolia, and 1000 years before the Gok-Turk expansion.

Saka means real brother in Pahtun. There were many places in Uyghur region which are called as Ikkisaq (Two Saks), Oghusaq (Oghuz sak), Toqquzaq (nine saks) etc.

The ancient Saka language was an Iranian language.

Lastly, Many pahtun people add Khan at the end of their names, which was characteristics of Huns or also present day Uyghur and other Turkic peoples.

The name "khan" is a word that has been adapted by many peoples of different backgrounds.  Its use may have been an indication of ethnic origin at one time, but because it spread so far and wide, other peoples have adopted its use.  The Rajputs of western India make much use of it themselves.

Incidently, the Huns (Xiongu) didn't use this title, they used the title "shan-yu".  The earliest known people to have made use of the title "khan" were the Ruruan, and they were Mongolic-speaking.
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Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 06:59
Originally posted by Sharrukin

Afghan and Aqhon (The people who built Eftalit empire, the name of which is very popular among Uyghur Turks to add at the end of male name)

The name "Aqhon" probably has no bearing on the Ephthalites.  In the west, the Ephthalites were also called "White Huns" which looks like a transliteration on "Aqhon".    In the east they were called Hayathelites by the Persians, Ye-tai by the Chinese, and simply Hunas by the Indians, but no eastern source called them "White Huns".  The personal name "Aqhon" must therefore have another etymology.

According to Tuoba Wei history in the 4th century AD, Ye tai were related with Yue chi (or Rou zhi or Tohar), though were included in the Tiele tribes. Surely, it was the mixure of Yue chi and Hunnic tribes. While Huihu (Uyghur) were the main body of the Tiele tribes,  Uyghurs and Yetai should have close relationship.

White hun (Aq hun) is still in commonly used as designation in the names of Uyghurs, then this should help us to find some relations.

Eftalit and abdal (one of the Tura tribes according to the chinese chronicals)

Again, the Chinese called them Ye-tai.

Again one of the Tiele tribes.

Huar and Avar (also one of the Tura tribes)

The Chinese called the eastern "Avars" the Ruruan.  As for them being Turkic, the evidence suggest that they were Mongolic of speech, not Turkic.

Rouran or Juanjuan were recorded as the descendants of the Huns, though the ruling class might be from eastern hu (proto Tungustic), as they absorbed large number of Hun or Tiele tribes, according to the Tuoba Wei history texts. 

Tura tribes were the descendants of Huns according to Chinese chronicals, including Uyghur, Oghuz etc.

The real "Tura" tribes were Iranic-speaking, not Turkic-speaking.  "Tura" or "Turan" is merely a borrowing from Persian sources for "eurasian nomad", which during the time of the earliest Iranian history were Iranic-speaking nomads. 

Might be, but they were the main body of the Turkic people. Or we can say that Turkic people emerged after absorbing almost all of the eastern iranic tribes and Hunnic tribes.

Pushtu people call themselves Pahtun, and the place as Pahtunhua.

Pahta is cotton in Uyghur, which is related to white colour. Pahthun can be changed as Pahtun. Then can we find relation between Pahtun and Aqhun?

No.  We actually have a correlation between "Pahtun" and the name of an ancient Afghani mountain tribe known to classical Greek historians as the Pactyans.  There were first attested by Herodotus about 430 BC.  This would be more than 200 years before the Hun expansion from Mongolia, and 1000 years before the Gok-Turk expansion.

Greek name and the current self calling should be examined further.

Saka means real brother in Pahtun. There were many places in Uyghur region which are called as Ikkisaq (Two Saks), Oghusaq (Oghuz sak), Toqquzaq (nine saks) etc.

The ancient Saka language was an Iranian language.

No, it's not iranian. but it might be eastern iranic.  

Lastly, Many pahtun people add Khan at the end of their names, which was characteristics of Huns or also present day Uyghur and other Turkic peoples.

The name "khan" is a word that has been adapted by many peoples of different backgrounds.  Its use may have been an indication of ethnic origin at one time, but because it spread so far and wide, other peoples have adopted its use.  The Rajputs of western India make much use of it themselves.

Incidently, the Huns (Xiongu) didn't use this title, they used the title "shan-yu".  The earliest known people to have made use of the title "khan" were the Ruruan, and they were Mongolic-speaking.

What I mean wasn't the early Huns. Actually it was "Chan Yu" in Chinese, "Tengriqut" in Turkic. 

It's only probable that Rouruans used this term first, but it's sure this term became more popular after the Turkic rulings. 

 



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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 07:19
No problems,  I will get rid of the rest later.
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