Islam Is Gaining a Foothold in Chiapas

This topic is about muslims in Mexico, so keep the Greco-Turk wars out of this topic please.

We appologize both of us, right Murtaza?

 

I am innocent

By they way, I dont think 300 muslim is soo dangerous to Mexico. We have 70 000 000 Muslim here, And well they are not much different than christians or other peoples.

 

The article said 300 converts in a very short period but I would suspect that the overall Muslim population in Mexico is bigger. It is a Roman Catholic stronghold and so currently I see no threat to Mexico or their current political structure. As long as the Muslims are a minority and that goes for my country as well, the U.S. Murtaza if you are in the U.S. the Muslims are still a minority and funny most are foreigners but so were my Greek grandparents on my mother side so no big deal. The Progressive Islamic movement sounds like a ray of hope that could reform Islam and help put an end to the radicals, I can support this and it is more than welcome to America or Mexico so I do not hate Muslims.

    What is Progressive Islam, where is it, what does it believe? Long before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, many Muslim spokesmen realized there was a growing, worldwide network of Muslim terrorists killing in the name of God. They also knew that the rights of women and non-Muslims were being routinely denied by Islamic regimes, such as the one in Saudi Arabia.

    "We have our fanatics just like everyone else," says Omid Safi, the co-chair of the Study of Islam section at the American Academy of Religion, and a professor of philosophy and religion at Colgate University. Safi was one of the co-founders of the Progressive Muslim Union, which was launched in 2004. "We have to take a stand against Saudi-infected extremism," insists Safi. Many American Muslim communities, he adds, "are far too uncritical of Salafi and Wahhabi tendencies."

Yes, Omid, and why is that? If you aren't still afraid to debate me, I'd be happy to discuss it with you at Colgate.

    He and other progressives believe that unless these radical tendencies are defeated, "the humanity of Muslims will be reduced to the caricature of violent zealots painted by fanatics from both inside and outside the Muslim community. It is time to start a-changin'," he says, borrowing from the lyrics of a famous Bob Dylan song.

We should start another thread but murtaza what do you think of the of the progessive movement? The focus here is Mexico.

I would be happy to debate Israel but it would only go in circles because I take a different view although I do not agree with all that Israel does so create another thread.




Edited by eaglecap

Here you be!!!

What is Progressive Islam, where is it, what does it believe? Long before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, many Muslim spokesmen realized there was a growing, worldwide network of Muslim terrorists killing in the name of God. They also knew that the rights of women and non-Muslims were being routinely denied by Islamic regimes, such as the one in Saudi Arabia.

    "We have our fanatics just like everyone else," says Omid Safi, the co-chair of the Study of Islam section at the American Academy of Religion, and a professor of philosophy and religion at Colgate University. Safi was one of the co-founders of the Progressive Muslim Union, which was launched in 2004. "We have to take a stand against Saudi-infected extremism," insists Safi. Many American Muslim communities, he adds, "are far too uncritical of Salafi and Wahhabi tendencies."

Yes, Omid, and why is that? If you aren't still afraid to debate me, I'd be happy to discuss it with you at Colgate.

    He and other progressives believe that unless these radical tendencies are defeated, "the humanity of Muslims will be reduced to the caricature of violent zealots painted by fanatics from both inside and outside the Muslim community. It is time to start a-changin'," he says, borrowing from the lyrics of a famous Bob Dylan song.

Originally posted by Murtaza "the humanity of Muslims will be reduced to the caricature of violent zealots painted by fanatics from both inside and outside the Muslim community. It is time to start a-changin'," This words look true. But I should know what is the meaning of "Changing" By the way eaglecap, what is the meaning of terrorist? It looks like, You think if a country kill innocent people, This means war, But If a bunch of people kill innocent people this means terrorist?

This is the sad part of war and many innocent people were killed during the bombing of Drsesden but Hilter had to be stopped. I do think about the innocent Iraqi children killed and many of them are killed by the radicals, but also what they call collateral damage, I hate the word. Human life is sacred and yes I take note when innocent people die in those countries. I hope we pull out of Iraq soon as possible. I hope we stay out of a conflict with Iran and put the national guard on our borders to stop our biggest threat to our national security, the illegal invasion. But, that is for another thread!!
Progressive Islam- I would like to know more about this so maybe Seko can add his wisdom to it.

Progressive Islam as an organized movement is something that I am a bit familiar with. The intention is to achieve a correct interpretation of the Koran and stress the monotheistic understanding of God and Islam. Progressives are against the reliance on hadith interpretations of the Koran. Progressives know that the Koran is full and detailed as a guide towards healthy religion. Progressives pray to God alone and do not support any one prophet of God over another. Only God knows the degree of importance among prophets. Most of all, progressives challange moslems to look at their superstitions and encourage them to research their understanding of age old beliefs. Is it in compliance with the Koran?  Progressive moslems are not the only entity that seeks to educate the masses about Islam. Their are 'submitters', and other moderate or liberal moslems that want to challenge the widespread corruption of world religions (traditional moslems included). Each moslem, christian or jew can ask themselves whether they are progressive or conservative.

The desire to understand ones religion takes some time.  We want to appreciate the details and gain confidence in our knowledge of said religions if we are to critically analyze it. 

Moslems can review the Koran and seek answers from this book, from  God, from knowledgeable friends. If we rely on interpretations of the Koran then we need to evaluate many versions of interpretations in order to make sense out of various suras and words. We need to know the modern meaning of various words. Once we grasp the intended meanings we could then cross reference such meanings within the text itself to see if the meanings are consistent. By attaining proper meanings, we could then procede to conclusions based on a sturdy understanding. This also entails the critical questioning of other religious sources (sayings of the prophet), historical texts, personal belief systems and scholars. We need to know what our religion is about instead of being told what it is or accepting an uneducated view. God will judge us on our own understanding. We just need to appreciate that He is reaching out to us for the sake of our betterment.

Intelligent and resarched based submitters to God (sounds better than progressive) are within us all. Ignorance should take a back seat to knowledge. 

Edited by Seko

I grew up sunni until I realized that sunni's depend on hadith literature and heresay for their information on religion. After I looked at many baseless and irrational hadiths and after seeking explanations within the Koran I realized that, 'this book is fully detailed and complete'. There was no need to depend on historically innaccurate books like the hadiths. God tells us in the Koran that:   The Quran is not a fabricated Hadith; ...it details everything. [12:111] ,  The only Sunna to follow shall be God's Sunna. [17:77, 33:62, 48:23, 6:114, 

The Hadith literature - the source of the Sunnah, is imposingly believed to be the words of Prophet Muhammad, passed through his companions. While purportedly made in the name of the Prophet, a number of these sayings can actually be traced to Zoroastrian culture, the Christian Bible and even the laws and rituals of the Byzantine. In a manner of speaking, the limited legislation in the Koran, basically the rules in regard to marriage, divorce, inheritances, orphans, food and a few others occupy very little room in the whole canon of Sharia Laws. A vast bulk of it comes from the Sunnah and significantly from Bukhari, concocted and recorded about 200 years after the death of the Prophet. Evidently, deeply merged in it, are the arbitrary laws, induced by the Muslim emperors and kings of their own as they could not successfully invoke to settle questions arising in such diverse categories as systematic and moral theology, ritual, civil and military laws, etc.

Appalling Hadiths

There are many ignorant sayings and deeds attributed to the prophet regarding his sex life, preferences and sexual de-sires. Didn't these so called narrators have anything else to do but peek in the Prophet's private life? How could such perverse narrators be considered reliable sources of information? These are the type of people who produced such blasphemous and incredible lies against a prophet of God! More incredible is the hypocrisy of the religious "experts" who supposedly follow these lies out of love and respect for the prophet!

There are also many silly things in the books of hadith such as whether one should drink a glass of water standing or sitting? Why should anyone care? Why are these kinds of irrelevant details important to some people? Because these people are completely ignorant about the essence of the religion of submission, and thus they think the religion is a bunch of rules and regulations on the petty details of life. They make the religion difficult for themselves while being proud of having difficulties and misery as part of their devotion to their "religion." Which religion or god are they devoting themselves to? It cannot be the same One who clearly stated in the Quran that He made the religion easy for us, that He did not reveal the Quran to make things difficult for us (20:2).

Hadith Exposed in the Quran

God condemns the hadith by name in the Quran, and informs us that it is a blasphemous fabrication (45:6-7). He says that the Quran is one consistent source since it's His Word. There is no contradiction in it. If it were from other than God, as hadith books are, they would have found in it numerous contradictions (4:82).

Hadiths can be useful for historical perspective, but they should not be used for establishing religious practices. Doing so does not mean one dislikes or does not obey the prophet Muhammad. On the contrary, it indicates that he or she respects him and God's revelations that came through his mouth. After all it is God we are all supposed to please. The Quran teaches us that when the judgment day comes and everything is brought forward, the prophet will be disappointed by what has been done to the message that he delivered. He will say, "my people have deserted the Quran" (25:30). Therefore, following or upholding baseless hadiths is something neither God nor His messengers want us to do:

Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.[31:6]

As a matter of fact, God and His messengers want us to follow the Word of God as the only source of religious guidance, otherwise we will end up disputing and dividing ourselves (3:103). The Quran is God's word in truth and justice; a blessing and beacon for those who want to submit to the Lord of the Universe, the Almighty. It's God's commandment that we should read it from cover to cover (73:4). Are we waiting for somebody to explain God's message to us while we can read it for ourselves? Therefore, read what your Creator wants to tell you for your own sake! Read it in a language that you can understand. When God says that He made the Quran easy to learn, He means it. He is the One who controls the hearts and minds of the people and guides them accordingly (28:56). He is teacher of the Quran for those who turn to Him (55:2).

GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for GOD's message. Such is GOD's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by GOD, nothing can guide them. [39:23]

Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions. [4:82]

The whole notion of hadiths have created a caste system of Hocas and Mullahs that have diverted people from the true religion. Each individual is accountable for getting their relgion straight. What better source is there than God and the Koran?

Edited by Seko

American based Protestant leaning evanglican sects are amoung some of the fastest growing anywhere, i think that for those worried about change in Mexico, this would be more of an issue.