Byzantine Empire expands overseas

Disclaimer: First of all, I don't want this to turn into a big flame war divided along nationalistic lines.  Please don't take this as an invitation for it, thanks!  Second of all, I know this is far-fetched, that is why I posted it in the Historical Amusement forum.  Please take a moment and play along, it is interesting to theorize and play "what-if" games sometimes!

Scenario: In an ideal situation, the Western powers of Europe rally to the defense of Constantine XI Palaeologus and the city of Constantinople and launch a crusade which breaks the siege of Constantinople by Mehmed II and the Ottoman Turks in 1453.  Subsequently the Ottomans are driven out of Anatolia and back into Asia by a Byzantine mercenary and crusader army.  Giving up on the conquest of Constantinople for the moment (bear with me here ), the Ottomans turn further east for expansion.  By 1480 the Byzantines manage to take back Anatolia, the Balkans, and some Aegean islands.  Columbus discovers America in 1492 and Europe continues to expand into the Americas on into the early 1500s. 

Topic for discussion: In an ideal situation, the Byzantine Empire (still Orthodox in religion and under the Palaeologan dynasty) has rebuilt its infrastructure, economy, and military enough on its own (not funded by outside benefactors) to become a contender with Spain, England, and Portugal for overseas expansion.  Considering the Empire can build ships that can withstand the rigours of high seas travel and can sustain a defensible colony abroad:

1. Where would the Empire choose to expand to first, the Americas or the East Indies?

2. Would the Byzantines utilize new technology such as gunpowder weapons / firearms in its conquests?

3. Looking at other colonial powers as a model, how would the Byzantines treat the native populations and how would the natives view the Byzantines -- differently than the Spanish?

4. Describe what a late 16th and 17th century Byzantine colony might look like and how it would develop in its new location with limited communication with Byzantine civilization in the old empire back home.

Komnenos, I definitely agree with your observations on the Late Byzantine period; this is the period, especially the siege of 1453, that fascinates me the most.  I understand if it seems a little too 'fantastic', this is exactly why I posted it in Historical Amusements!

Anyways, if anyone else would like to 'play along' in this experiment, please, by all means, do!

Here is what I would add in reply to these questions:

1. I think it would have been interesting if the Byzantines had established a colony in North America, maybe around Texas or Louisiana.  I might suggest a name, such as Colonia Palaiologina.  As some of you may know, there was a large Greek settlement in northeastern Florida, established around 1740 in what would become the city of New Smyrna.

2.  In the scenario, since the Byzantines have recovered and have built their economy up, they can now invest in new technology.  They might have Western gun casters teach Greeks the art of cannon and firearms making.  Some gun foundries might be set up in Constantinople and then the technology could be transferred to the new world colony.  I wonder if the Greek cannon-making would develop differently than that of the Ottomans or Western Europe, once they have harnessed the technology?  I wonder what a 16th-17th century Byzantine soldier might have looked like in terms of armor and weaponry...

3.  I really think the Byzantines would not have converted the native populations by the sword.  They would have undoubtedly established a church hierarchy in America, and a system of monasteries.  It would be interesting to think of how Byzantine culture and Aztec, Mayan, Iroqois culture might have clashed or have mixed.  A Greek Orthodox tribe of Aztecs might be quite interesting!

4. First of all, what might the defensive line of walls around a 16th-17th century colony look like?  The Theodosian Walls would be almost 1400 years old by then; would the walls have a distinctive "Palaeologan" design to them (whatever that might be ) or would builders seek to use the Theodosian walls as a template?  I would assume that the climate in southern Texas and Louisiana is similar to Mediterranean climate, so the houses in the colony would probably be flat-roofed and two stories tall.

Here is some more insight into how the Byzantine Empire might finance both its colonies and the mustering of a new military force:

Byzantium unfortunately saw the bad side of the developing capitalist furvor in the Italian Republics, most specifically in Venice. During the Comneni period and even more after the disaster of the Fourth Crusade, the Italians gradually expanded their merchant community in Constantinople and would eventually latch on to the Byzantine economy. Native Byzantine merchants and businessmen were driven out of business by the Italian usurpation of the economy.

In my scenario, it would be interesting to see the Byzantines raise a native army once again, from Themes or Pronoiars established in new and reconquered territory, and drive the Italians out of Constantinople. Byzantium would still trade with the Italians, no doubt. With good management and the adoption of more sophisticated banking techniques (learned from the Italians, perhaps ), the Byzantine Empire might not make the same financial mistakes that the Spanish made. Who knows, with a revitalized economy, Byzantium might find something in the New World, or at home, that it could produce and export.

Yes, this is what I have been getting at with this topic!  Please elaborate on your statement.  Is there anything in my previous posts in this topic that you think is particularly interesting?  Please feel free to comment on my posts and add anything new that you might think of.

Well I will play along. Such a scenario is impossible but let's just do it for the sake of being imaginative. I doubt they would have much initiative to begin with as the Italian and Spanish are in the way of travelling to the New World. But IF they did I would say they would probably try and conquer India rather than the Americas. Byzantium always had a heavy drain on its economy because of the luxury products from the East it had to buy through Middle Eastern middlemen. They would have struck out for India because it was economically so profitable for them and besides that the Greeks had a historical tradition of conquest in that area of the world due to Alexander.

Again it is a pretty impossible sort of scenario but I reckon they would have chosen India over the Americas. If they did manage to recover like that though they would never be short of enemies such as Italians, Spaniards, Turks, Kurds, Austro-Hungarians etc. It seems more likely they would have concentrated on expansion within their own area.

Komnenos,

This is very interesting, thanks for finally playing!  If I am recalling this correctly, the Romance of Alexander was an important work of literature in the late Byzantine period, maybe the Byzantines would be inspired by this to continue with the conquest of India, where Alexander the Great left off!  The new Byzantine colonies having been established, I wonder what kind of goods they would be trading, from their Asian archipelago ports?

Now that the Byzantines have a revitalized economy and are not bankrupt, what would a 16th-17th century Byzantine army look like in terms of uniforms and weapons?  I wonder if they would keep any elements from their classical past, or would they adopt the pikeman and arquebusier format of the rest of Western Europe?  That would be interesting if the cataphract or clibanophorus would still be used, only now armored with steel plate instead of heavy chain and lamellar armor.

Also, how would transplanted Palaeologan Byzantine culture effect the indigenous Asian colonies?  Would it develop differently in the archipelagos?

That...was...AWESOME! 

Excellent points!  

I like your point about the Byzantines concentrating religious persecution more upon Christian heretics than the non-Christians.  The only non-Christians, besides Jews, that the Byzantines had contact with were the Muslim Arabs and Turks.  I think the hostility that the Byzantines had towards Islam and the Turks was borne mainly out of the political and military circumstances of the time.  In other words the Byzantines saw Islam as an oppressive non-Christian religion, embodied in the military and political enemy Turks.  Yes they thought the Turks were "infidels", but there are instances of the two living side by side, i.e. Digenes Akritas and the frontier lords of Asia Minor.  It would be interesting to see how the SE Asians and the Byzantines reacted to each other's religions.