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yomud
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Topic: turk and turkmens were jewish ! Posted: 20-Nov-2013 at 18:49 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk
Originally posted by
]Mikâîl (Michael), Isrâîl (Israel), Mûsâ (Moses), and Yûnus (Jonah ) | i expected something more turkish so we were jew b4 we became muslem ?
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Ollios
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Posted: 23-Nov-2013 at 11:39 |
Originally posted by yomud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk
Originally posted by
]Mikâîl (Michael), Isrâîl (Israel), Mûsâ (Moses), and Yûnus (Jonah ) |
i expected something more turkish so we were jew b4 we became muslem ?
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Nice work
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Benim Kabem İnsandır
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yomud
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Posted: 24-Nov-2013 at 13:23 |
Originally posted by Ollios
Nice work |
ohh plz . i know it's strange but as i told you here http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33657&KW= one of our theory was we descended from Noah at first time i just ignore it but later when i see seljuk bay give jewish name to his son i change my mind so i give little search and i found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve
http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eje
as our legends says eje was a first women ! and as we all know eve was also the first women can u see the similarity ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Khagan#Legend
Originally posted by
]The account begins with descent from Adam to Noah, who after the flood
sends his three sons to repopulate the earth: Ham was sent to
Hindustan, Sam to Iran, and Yafes went to the banks of the Itil and Yaik
rivers and had eight sons named Turk, Khazar, Saqlab, Rus, Ming, Chin,
Kemeri, and Tarikh. As he was dying he established Turk as his
successor. | i know it's hard to believe it and it's against so many things but all of our past was half history half legend !
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bosnjak6
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Posted: 29-Dec-2013 at 19:27 |
I know that before islam and christian religion was judaism so yeah some names came from there as turks took allot of names from the arabs and other countries from the middle east...
Mabe some turkish traders went to that place and picked up some names and named their sons becouse they found them great :D
Edited by bosnjak6 - 29-Dec-2013 at 20:17
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Slava Bosni!
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beorna
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Posted: 30-Dec-2013 at 02:05 |
The correct title would be, "some Turks and turkmens were jewish" namely the Khazars, who became jewish, probably in the beginning of the 9th century. But inside their empire were sas well muslim and christian populations. With the destruction of their empire by the Rus, the jewish history is widely unknown. there are several theories, so, that mostly all eastern jews were descendents of Khazars instead of being from Israel. But this is uncertain. Another way how jewish names came into Turk languages is simply the islam, which is as well based on the mosaic religion, like it is christianity.
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Ollios
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Posted: 31-Dec-2013 at 12:15 |
Originally posted by beorna
The correct title would be, "some Turks and turkmens were jewish" namely the Khazars, who became jewish, probably in the beginning of the 9th century.
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There is meaning mistake in here. Jewish means Jew so it is name of nation/tribe, so Khazars weren't Jew/Jewish, they were believing Judaism.
Originally posted by beorna
With the destruction of their empire by the Rus, the jewish history is
widely unknown. there are several theories, so, that mostly all eastern
jews were descendents of Khazars instead of being from Israel. But this
is uncertain.
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I agree but it seems there is not much Khazar effect on Eastern Jews(do you mean all Ashkenazi or just East European Ashkenazi?)
Originally posted by
We found that most of the maternal lineages don’t trace to the north
Caucasus, which would be a proxy for the Khazarians, or to the Near
East, but most of them emanate from Europe
Ashkenazi males, whose Y chromosomal DNA suggests a likely origin in the
Near East, the female lineage of Ashkenazi Jews have substantial
ancestry in Europe
| http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/However this research says different things. I hate unclear situations like this
Originally posted by
genome of European Jews is a mosaic of ancient peoples and its origin is largely Khazar.
| http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-jewish-people-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539But this figure seems logical Oghuz lands was under the influnence of Khazar (Ghuzz in map) so it is obvious, Seljuk was affected by this culture
Edited by Ollios - 31-Dec-2013 at 23:09
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beorna
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Posted: 31-Dec-2013 at 20:21 |
Originally posted by Ollios
There is meaning mistake in here. Jewish means Jew so it is name of nation/tribe, so Khazars weren't Jew/Jewish, they were believing Judaism. |
When I wrote "jewish" I meant it in a strict religious way, not in an ethnic one.
Originally posted by Ollios
I agree but it seems there is not much Khazar effect on Eastern Jews(do you mean all Ashkenazi or just East European Ashkenazi?) |
These theory means all eastern Jews, not all european. I can't say whether it is true or not.
Originally posted by Ollios
Originally posted by beorna
We found that most of the maternal lineages don’t trace to the north
Caucasus, which would be a proxy for the Khazarians, or to the Near
East, but most of them emanate from Europe ...........
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This and the rest was not posted by me!
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Ollios
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Posted: 31-Dec-2013 at 23:08 |
Originally posted by beorna
When I wrote "jewish" I meant it in a strict religious way, not in an ethnic one. |
Is there any other word for religion? İn Turkish we called it Musevi (Follower of Musa-Turkish verison of Moses) And wiki is mentioning using word Judaism instead of Jewish. The other way is wrong. It is like being muslim in Ottoman Period. Sometimes people call it as being Turk which means total assimilation. But I don't think Khazars way like that
Originally posted by Ollios
I agree but it seems there is not much Khazar effect on Eastern Jews(do you mean all Ashkenazi or just East European Ashkenazi?) |
These theory means all eastern Jews, not all european. I can't say whether it is true or not. Eastern Jews ???, Ashkenazi or Mizrahi or both of them
Originally posted by beorna
This and the rest was not posted by me!
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my fault I have forgotten to erase your name. I am fixing
Edited by Ollios - 31-Dec-2013 at 23:10
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yomud
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Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 15:23 |
there is a disconnection between pagen and muslem turks ! i think b4 we became muslem we have already changed our religion to abrahamic one and the real question why we totally change it ! does any one forced us to do that ? !
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Ollios
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Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 16:57 |
Originally posted by yomud
there is a disconnection between pagen and muslem turks !
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it is same with Scandiavians conversion. The early conversion of Turks was bloody
Originally posted by yomud
i think b4 we became muslem we have already changed our religion to abrahamic one and the real question why we totally change it ! does any one forced us to do that ? !
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Abrahamic? Are you mentioing about Judaism?
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opuslola
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Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 21:09 |
A well rounded reply from the Bear!
ron
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opuslola
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Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 21:11 |
Originally posted by Ollios
Originally posted by yomud
there is a disconnection between pagen and muslem turks !
| it is same with Scandiavians conversion. The early conversion of Turks was bloody
Originally posted by yomud
i think b4 we became muslem we have already changed our religion to abrahamic one and the real question why we totally change it ! does any one forced us to do that ? !
| Abrahamic? Are you mentioing about Judaism? |
Yes of course it was "forced!", just look around us today!
Ron
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yomud
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Posted: 29-Jan-2014 at 03:46 |
Originally posted by Ollios
Abrahamic? Are you mentioing about Judaism?
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mybe both christian religion was judaism this is what i think we pagen turks ==> christian turks ==> judaism turks ==> muslem turks
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toyomotor
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Posted: 29-Jan-2014 at 06:45 |
Originally posted by yomud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk
Originally posted by
]Mikâîl (Michael), Isrâîl (Israel), Mûsâ (Moses), and Yûnus (Jonah ) | i expected something more turkish so we were jew b4 we became muslem ?
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Nope! That there are similarities between Jewish and Muslim names is because the latter, the Muslims, regard the Old Testament as part of their religion, basically speaking. They accept Jesus as a prophet, the same as Mohammed. There are many Arabic names which are similar to Abrahamic names, Joseph=Yusef, Dahwey=David etc.
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Ollios
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Posted: 29-Jan-2014 at 15:30 |
Originally posted by toyomotor
Originally posted by yomud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk
Originally posted by
]Mikâîl (Michael), Isrâîl (Israel), Mûsâ (Moses), and Yûnus (Jonah ) | i expected something more turkish so we were jew b4 we became muslem ?
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Nope! That there are similarities between Jewish and Muslim names is because the latter, the Muslims, regard the Old Testament as part of their religion, basically speaking. They accept Jesus as a prophet, the same as Mohammed. There are many Arabic names which are similar to Abrahamic names, Joseph=Yusef, Dahwey=David etc. |
Yes you are right, even name of Jesus (in Turkish, it is "İsa") is well known. It is the 441 st popular name in Turkey, similar with name Judy in the USA the expression of that "turks were jewish" is maybe too strong, but the effection of Khazars on Seljuks Empire so also Oghuz is reasonable
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toyomotor
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Posted: 29-Jan-2014 at 19:56 |
Originally posted by Ollios
Originally posted by toyomotor
Originally posted by yomud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk
Originally posted by
]Mikâîl (Michael), Isrâîl (Israel), Mûsâ (Moses), and Yûnus (Jonah ) | i expected something more turkish so we were jew b4 we became muslem ?
|
Nope! That there are similarities between Jewish and Muslim names is because the latter, the Muslims, regard the Old Testament as part of their religion, basically speaking. They accept Jesus as a prophet, the same as Mohammed. There are many Arabic names which are similar to Abrahamic names, Joseph=Yusef, Dahwey=David etc. | Yes you are right, even name of Jesus (in Turkish, it is "İsa") is well known. It is the 441 st popular name in Turkey, similar with name Judy in the USA the expression of that "turks were jewish" is maybe too strong, but the effection of Khazars on Seljuks Empire so also Oghuz is reasonable |
Yes, and it's appropriate to remember that in certain parts of Europe 2000years ago, two religions were competing for the affection of followers, Christian and Muslim. There was also a certain amount of mixing in certain countries. For example, the Mongols permitted religious freedom in areas they controlled, so we saw both Muslim and Christian side by side with Zoroastrianism.
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opuslola
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Posted: 29-Jan-2014 at 23:19 |
In the opinion of the Fomenko Group, all three of these great religions were at one time mostly together!
Do any of you think it unusual that both the Jews and the Moslems have both held as "Holy" rocks or stones!
The laws of God were reportedly written upon stone/rock tablets that were carried down from the "Holy Mountain" by Moses and then destroyed!
And in the Muslim world, the most powerful items considered are the 12-14 stones that are displayed in Medina!
Is it not funny that there seems to be no displayed grave of Muhammed "pbth",or Jesus/Isus/Musa, that can be proved?
Mystery surrounds the last grave of any of them.
Were not the famous stones of Medina at one time displayed in Jerusalem?
Were not the famous stones of Moses displayed through out Israel until they were captured by the Philistines? Were not the stones of Muhammed also captured?
Is it not strange that Moses and Muhammed began with a "M"?
Just why do so many facts suggest that Jesus was a duplicate of Caesar?, and many historians have suggested so?
Just why must we disregard the life time of Mohammed the Conqueror as not being the real life of Mohammed the prophet?
Thus, at one time these similar people "split" which is not uncommon amongst religious groups. They then are supposed to have morphed into what we have today! All of the above is the opinion of the Fomenko Group!
Lots of questions, and a few answers!
Regards, Ron
Edited by opuslola - 29-Jan-2014 at 23:29
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opuslola
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Posted: 29-Jan-2014 at 23:32 |
Originally posted by beorna
Originally posted by Ollios
There is meaning mistake in here. Jewish means Jew so it is name of nation/tribe, so Khazars weren't Jew/Jewish, they were believing Judaism. | When I wrote "jewish" I meant it in a strict religious way, not in an ethnic one.
Originally posted by Ollios
I agree but it seems there is not much Khazar effect on Eastern Jews(do you mean all Ashkenazi or just East European Ashkenazi?) | These theory means all eastern Jews, not all european. I can't say whether it is true or not.
Originally posted by Ollios
Originally posted by beorna
We found that most of the maternal lineages don’t trace to the north
Caucasus, which would be a proxy for the Khazarians, or to the Near
East, but most of them emanate from Europe...........
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| This and the rest was not posted by me! |
Very good, even today there exist at least three different ethnic groups that can be considered as Jewish! It is the religion that keeps them all together!
Religion, the most dangerous addiction facing the planet today!
By the way, I was raised as a Southern Baptist, (which means nothing to most of you) and I am proud of it!
Ron
Edited by opuslola - 29-Jan-2014 at 23:37
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toyomotor
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Posted: 31-Jan-2014 at 20:03 |
Originally posted by opuslola
In the opinion of the Fomenko Group, all three of these great religions were at one time mostly together!
Do any of you think it unusual that both the Jews and the Moslems have both held as "Holy" rocks or stones!
The laws of God were reportedly written upon stone/rock tablets that were carried down from the "Holy Mountain" by Moses and then destroyed!
And in the Muslim world, the most powerful items considered are the 12-14 stones that are displayed in Medina!
Is it not funny that there seems to be no displayed grave of Muhammed "pbth",or Jesus/Isus/Musa, that can be proved?
Mystery surrounds the last grave of any of them.
Were not the famous stones of Medina at one time displayed in Jerusalem?
Were not the famous stones of Moses displayed through out Israel until they were captured by the Philistines? Were not the stones of Muhammed also captured?
Is it not strange that Moses and Muhammed began with a "M"?
Just why do so many facts suggest that Jesus was a duplicate of Caesar?, and many historians have suggested so?
Just why must we disregard the life time of Mohammed the Conqueror as not being the real life of Mohammed the prophet?
Thus, at one time these similar people "split" which is not uncommon amongst religious groups. They then are supposed to have morphed into what we have today! All of the above is the opinion of the Fomenko Group!
Lots of questions, and a few answers!
Regards, Ron |
I weep with frustration at the insanity of man and his ridiculous, but sometimes accepted, theories on history, or for that matter, anything else. I clothe myself in sack cloth and beat my breast, crying, "Please, common sense must prevail", in the steadfast hope that, one day, History Revisionists will come to accept the realities of life, as proven by historic research, peer review and acceptance.
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tomb_seeker
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Posted: 27-Nov-2014 at 08:47 |
I don't see a big ifferent between jews and moslems, because both are realted to the same root of religion and yes, khazars was not the only jews turk people, but it was the biggest of all. without the convertation of the khazars to jews.., today there will be not so much jews on the world. but the same is for islam, if the turks where not convert to islam, today the islam will not so much public on the workd. sometime i'm thinking the same to christianian, because also i.e. bulgar and geogian turks have done a lot to share this..., turks are really sharing a lot of religion over all the world, but mostly lost his own religion shamane, which is the biggest lost i guess.
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