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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkic Pantheon
    Posted: 09-Sep-2013 at 02:56
Originally posted by ollios

]I don't think that I understood you. If he is important in there, please tell us. You should know much then me
 well i dont wanna say he is well respected tody but surly he was well respected so many gerey name are here land rock tribe even part of my mother's surname is gerey  so maybe in east the evil dark gods are worship as we know the black is color of evil and white is color of light and good . seljuks who move to west have white 2 head  hawk as their banner this maybe means they worshiped good gods . i have little info about salgur but i know their animal and banner was eagle as today we can see the trace of evil gods here maybe the salgur eagle was black eagle ! u was karaman turkmen huh ?? oh boy i cant imagine u as evil turkmen with 2 horn on your head and flaming shoulders holding flaming sword with your right hand holding black chain of 2 itbarak pet with your left  Evil Smile


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Edited by yomud - 09-Sep-2013 at 03:16
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2013 at 13:37
Originally posted by yomud

did they have animal for them self if so than what is it  ??? for expl  Erlik's animal is bear

I am learning this from you. Erlik and Bear Big smile

Deer = Ak Ana, she has horn like deer
Huma Bird (or somekind of mythological bird) = Umay
Swan = Ayızıt (Goddess of Beauty)

These are first things which I can remember

and yes wolf is animal of goktengri

Originally posted by yomud


which people worship the which god ?
I have no idea

Originally posted by yomud

do we have sacrifice cultures (human one) or tattoos

*Ancient Turks were buring their horse when horse owner died

*There is a kind of sacrifice which is bloodless. Let an animal go to be free. People when choose one of the animals, they don't use its wool and milk or it doesn't use for carring. In proper time they let it go

*Human sacrifice isseu isn't clear, so source say it is forbiden but some sources says it is tradition

Stories about human sacrifice
:Goktengri and Ak Ana(Sea Goddnes) meet in a cave. Ak ana goes there in a white deer shape but a clan hunt it. After that, when Göktürks need a human for sacrifice, take one person from that clan. This was their punishment.

:A Byzantine delegate has a story about death ceremony of Istami han

:There is a human sacrifice in epic legend of Ural Batyr. Khagan burnt people in ceremony of his birth 

Originally posted by yomud

i think most of turkmens here worship the Evil Gods while those in turkey worship good gods ofc be4 we all become muslem can u tell me more about Kerey Han  he is well respected here 

Confused I don't think that I understood you. If he is important in there, please tell us. You should know much then me
 


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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2013 at 08:18
one more thing does tengri 's animal is wolf ?? (possible asena ?)
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2013 at 08:16
did they have animal for them self if so than what is it  ??? for expl  Erlik's animal is bear

do we have any info about worshiping or which people worship the which god ? do we have sacrifice cultures (human one) or tattoos i think most of turkmens here worship the Evil Gods while those in turkey worship good gods ofc be4 we all become muslem can u tell me more about Kerey Han  he is well respected here
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2013 at 17:46
Originally posted by yomud

ollios i read the Erlik have 9 boy and girl  and they helping their father in doing evil things what are their name and what power they have ? Smile

Blackgirls
They destroy shaman's focus, when he prays. They use own sexual charm.

 Just two of them has a name
*Kiştey Ana(she has eight eye but I don't know why) some sources say that she can turn into black fox.
*Erke Hanım(Sultan/Solton) Erk means power


Blackboys
Karaş Han   : God of Darkness, he has black snakes
Matır Han     : Fearless war god. He knows as stone wrist. Wrist is apower symbol, like in arm wrestling. There is also an idiom in Turkish. When you beat someone, you can say "I curled his wrist" but you can't curl stone, can you? 
Şıngay Han : It is like Eris. God of Chaos. In modern Turkish, we use word çıngar instead of chaos/noise. When a Turkish women say I will make çıngar if you don't leave, it means she will yell and call police Big smile
Kömür Han : Kömür means also coal. This guy wears black and important god of Erlik. Kömür han is second ruler of Turkic underground
Badış Han   :  God of disease and diasters, he was one arm which has nine people power
Yabaş Han   : A god who is between black shaman and Erlik han.
Temir Han   :Demir means iron so he is Turkic Hephaistos. He is the one who teachs the smithery to humanity. He has one eye
Uçar Han     :God of bad news and spys
Kerey Han  :He is anothor Eris


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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2013 at 14:09
ollios i read the Erlik have 9 boy and girl  and they helping their father in doing evil things what are their name and what power they have ? Smile
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2013 at 05:54

as you see, he is quite similar with yama

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have talked about Turkic Santa and now Turkic Christmas

21-24 December are the longest nights so these days are holy in many culture.

As Persian Yalda, Turks have own special festival for it. It is Nardugan. It means "sun is rising" White pine tree is also symbol of this festival. 

Normally, There is no Christmas ceremony in Turkey(without minorities). Turks celebrate new year. Santa and  illuminating tree is part of new year celebrations, but even there is huge resist against it. New year celebrations seems like Christmas for religious Turks. By contrastly they have new enemy now. Big smile Nardugan has started to celebrate in Turkey for a few years. Small local goverment prepared events for it in past years, but it is for common in Central Asia and Russia(Tataristan)

"For the Bulgars of the Volga-Kama region, the victory of light over darkness (typical for the Indo-Iranian worldview) represented probably their most ancient holiday, whose date corresponded to the Indo-Iranian celebration of Mitra. Over countless generations, their nation kept the memory alive of how Alp Nardugan, the natural spirit responsible for providing his people with abundant crops, had confronted the malicious spirits whose aim it was to block out the sun to mankind. Taking the form of a rook, Nardugan victoriously returned the sun’s warm rays to the wintery world below, sending his scorched body plummeting to the earth; where his jet-black feathers were transformed into steppe horses dark as the night. Recognizing his bravery and selflessness, the supreme Tangra granted him a new life, and so the rook appears each year to signal the beginning of Spring, the re-awakening of the living earth.....

...In Tatarstan, for Christian and Muslim Tatars alike, Nardugan Beyrem is again gaining a significant cultural importance. Exclusively rural in previous centuries, in Naberezhnye Chelny, the holiday is today seen as the vivid embodiment of the nation’s glorious past, especially for Kereshen Tatars, who celebrate it at the same time as Orthodox Epiphany. It is worthy to not that the Keresheni are experiencing a revival of culture and a rejuvenation of religious fellowship not unlike their Muslim brethren following the breakup of the Soviet Union. For Muslim Tatars, Nardugan remains a largely secular, cultural holiday. The theater performances are the main event, among which are “Nardugan Kureneshe” and “Shaytan Tue,” and activities including a competition for the most delicious pancake and the burning of small ritual fires. Those in attendance can also witness the talents of Tatarstan’s soloists and folk music ensembles, who make their way from as far as Samara and Bashkortostan."



"Day of a winter solstice, on December, 22 (nardugan) celebrated everywhere because from this day duration days starts to increase. To date of a winter solstice the important place was allocated{removed}, similarly modern New Year's for it is day when the sun finishes the annual cycle and should come back again. Day of a winter solstice named " small New year " (Nardugan).

On holiday Nardugan in all houses of the woman prepared for celebratory dishes. In the morning of the man made a sacrifice to spirits of ancestors and spirits - houses for well-being of family in the expired year and asked about its{her} prosperity in the future. After sacrifices to spirits of ancestors members of family with its full complement were present at a celebratory feast. After a dinner all making related, neighbours left on street and fun, games, dancings began. People, having formed a circle, went around of fur-trees on a course of the sun. Thus, typed{collected} vital energy for overcoming the stayed winter season."

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/52Bezertinov/TengriBezertinovCh2p41-70En.htm



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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2013 at 08:33
Erlik and Loki both have horn in some descriptions. It is quite interesting. However there is no horned Loki in modern era. Does Loki really have horn? and why Hollywood chooses current figure instead of Loki in modern era.  

 Lokistone

But in modern are, there is no horn


 


Erlik is close with Buddist-Chinese underworld/death god  Yama and Hinduist god Yama
 
Chinese-Tibetian                                                   Hindu                        

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2013 at 08:18
Originally posted by Snafu

I'm not even sure who "Kuara" is. There's a Mongol god of rain called Qura Khan, maybe they screwed up the spelling.
"In Turkic shamanism, the god of thunder. Also called Kvara. He was held in particular reverence by the early Bulgars."   (this is all information Cry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuara

Originally posted by Snafu

Erlik looks like Shredder from the teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

he should have animal head, shouldnt he? but maybe this is because of buddist effect

left side
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erlik in Comics

Green Erlik and his servents khats

 

Red Erlik


multi-arm Erlik




Edited by Ollios - 21-Jun-2013 at 08:47
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2013 at 07:48
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

i've been following this topic with much interest thanks.

Thanks Arthur also Aborgine myths are interesting, please create a topic Big smile. I remember that rainbow is a snake in their myths. I love mtyhs from Inti to Loki, from Shiva to rainbow snake Wink
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2013 at 07:36
Originally posted by TITAN_

 
I don't see the parallel there. The Holy Spirit did not give birth to God! 

I started my sentence with "I believe" so don't take it to serious Big smile

Even some myths, Tengri and Kayra is same person, in some myhts Kayra and Ulgen. People can change the orginal names so you can't decide which one is true.

I don't prefer to give a shape to Tengri as said in wiki,
"[[Tengri]] is one of the names for the primary chief deity in the religion of the early Turkic people. The words [[Tengri]] and [[Sky]] were synonyms. It is unknown how Tengri looks like." 

By contrast, someone can image him a old mucular guy who holds a thunder like Zeus

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  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2013 at 03:17
I'm not even sure who "Kuara" is. There's a Mongol god of rain called Qura Khan, maybe they screwed up the spelling.

Erlik looks like Shredder from the teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2013 at 03:16
i've been following this topic with much interest thanks.
though i can't contribute anything very good, i thought i may as well post that perhaps someone should compile a pantheon of Turk or Turanian deities etc?

this list is not just Turkic but also Ural-Altaic and Central Asian and Siberian:

(')abada (forest)
ajysyt
ak_ata
ak_ana (gaia/rhea/whitemother)
altan sibaldai (golden witch)
ay/ai/ay_dede (moon/white)
alip
ashina/asenaTuwu (grey/bluewolf) [~ athena? ashkenaz/tuisco?]
bai-ulgan
bukheBeligte/gesar
bumin (1stancestor)
burtecinua ([bluewolf])
chesma(iyesi) (fountainnymph/spirit)
celbegan/yilbegan (maneatingmonster)
chuvash/[koyash] ([light/sun]) ~ nachash?
daichinTengri
eje
eneth/eneh
erlik (pride/hubris/arrogance/death/evil/hades) [~ nergal/erra? hercules? enoch? elohim?]
esegeMalan
evren/ebren (dragon)
gesar khan
gun_ana (sun)
gok-tengri (bluesky)
guaMaral/maralKho'ai
hunor
inmar
il/yil (wind)
itbarak(s)/[yilbegan?] (wolfmen)
jar-sub/yer-sub (earth-water)
juldus/yulduz (star)
kesar/gesar(khan)/ges'r/bukheBeligte
kun/kiun/kuin/gun_ana/[ulughKun?] (sun)
koyash (sun) [~ nachash/[gishzida]? cush?]
kayra(Han)/kuara (thunder/tree)
khodai ~ god?
lama
maralKho'ai/guaMaral
naran eke (mother sun)
num/numitorem [~ ninurta/nimrod? noah/anum?]
Otuken
Ot (marriage)
od(lek)/tengri (sky)
ogus khan/oghuz khagan
siber (hound/dog emerged from lake baikal)
su_ana
su_ata (ironbow, water)
su_iyesi (nymph)
tulpar (pegasus)
timur/temur (iron)
teng(e)ri/tanri/tangara/od(lek) (sky/heaven) [~ dingir?]
tung-ak (chief) ~ tunek (eskimo)?
tur
turk/tuKueh (wolf)
umay/umai/umai-ana (hera) [~ naamah?]
ulgen/bai-ulgan (light/good/helpman/thunder?) [~ uriel? tubalcain/vulcan? uranus?]
[ulughKun]?
udan (creation) [~ adonai? adam?]
ut-ana
vaat (gaia)
ukulan-tojon/va-kul (water)
yer(-sub) (earth(-water))
yil/ilkhan (wind) [~ enlil? el?]
yelmogus/yilbegan/celbegan
yulduz/juldus (star)
zaarinTengri
zilant (snake/serpent/dragon)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 21-Jun-2013 at 03:22
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2013 at 02:34
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by yomud

tengri is god of just and wrath who sit on altay and punish the people with thunderbolt LOL 

If you know lot, please tell me. My sources says different thing. According to them, Tengri doesn't have any shape also I believe there is something like trinity(this my idea)

Christianity        Greek Paganism     Tengrism/Mongol-Turkic Paganism
Holy Spirit            Uranos                                 Tengri
God                      Kronos                                 Kayra Han
Jesus                    Zeus                                    Ülgen

Ulgen is son of Kayra han and he is the one who can send thunders.


 


I don't see the parallel there. The Holy Spirit did not give birth to God! 
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2013 at 08:57
Maybe you think that Central Asia is totally desert but it is also cold and Turkic people also have own believes about it.

Russians have recreated new Santa with using old slavic tales
İsim:  ded_moroz_snegurochka.jpg  Görüntüleme: 25  Büyüklük:  54,5 KB (Kilobyte)

and Turkic countries did what Russians had done before and they turned Russian Santa into Turkic Santa

*Ayaz(Ayas) Ata- Ak Ayaz - Şaxta Baba: Ayaz is world which means cold but it just uses for weather, especially for night and winter. Ata-Baba means father, ak means white. He helped poor, hungry people in winter.  He is connected with moon and moonlight

*Kar Kız(Snow Girl):She is daughter or grand daughter of Ayaz Ata

As you know, Orion is easy to find constellation in winter (I think most of us live in northern hemisphere). Orion has seven bright stars and Turks believes that these are seven holes in sky. Ayaz Ata blows cold winds with using these holes.

In my opinion, they should be clear about colours, Russians can use blue and Turks can be use white. Give the red to Santa Wink

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lamp I have an idea for next christmas: a new anime

St Nicolas took the hope which came from Pandora's box and he divided it into three pieces and hided them. Evil creature or creatures(they can be underground gods: Hades-Erklik and Hell) try to find them and make humanity hopeless. Three old men who have opposite characters Santa with Russian and Turkic versions have to join force to save the world Big smile  


Edited by Ollios - 20-Jun-2013 at 09:02
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 16:40
Originally posted by Snafu

I'm surprised they didn't use Umai. She was a more important goddess than the moon.

I agree you. Umai is like Turkish Hera. She is great godness also as Hera, she is related with birth

Originally posted by Snafu

Koyash is an odd one. I've only seen that name in a few places. A more common name I've seen for the sun god was Kun. The Mongols called it Naran Eke (mother sun).  

Yes, yes and yes Wink Sun and Moon both have male and female characters. As you, I prefer female sun and male moon version, not Kuyash 
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  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 07:38
I'm surprised they didn't use Umai. She was a more important goddess than the moon.

Koyash is an odd one. I've only seen that name in a few places. A more common name I've seen for the sun god was Kun. The Mongols called it Naran Eke (mother sun). 

 


Edited by Snafu - 19-Jun-2013 at 07:48
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 06:27
Originally posted by Don Quixote

This is a fascinating subject, thank you for sharing.
I would like to learn more about Asena...AFAIK after taking care of a boy without arms and legs she became pregnant by him and gave birth to Bumin, the first khan of the Gokturks. So, as I see it, this means that Asena was seen as a mother off all Turks...is that right? 

YeapWink

Originally posted by Don Quixote

I was told that the female members of the Grey Wolves are called symbolically Asena; as I see it as a symbol of a mythical rebirth, something like situation oneself into the "sacred space" /after my favourite Eliade/. 

YeapWink

Originally posted by Don Quixote


The wolf is a very strong archetypal image for quite a few different cultures - the Romans, as I recall some Native American tribes, the Serbs /a polar wolf was seen as their ancestor, I'm talking here about South Slavic pagan mythology/, in Ukraine a white wolf is a forest spirit, turning people in wolves is a motif in the Slavic paganism that became a frequent motif in the fairy tales; not to forget the medieval European wolf/turning motif that continues...into today's mass novel/movie culture.

I have just kown Romans. Now with your post, I have learnt something wolf culture. What about Bulgarian myths? Bulgar ruler Kubrat/Kurt? (kurt=wolf)  
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2013 at 12:57
This is a fascinating subject, thank you for sharing.
I would like to learn more about Asena...AFAIK after taking care of a boy without arms and legs she became pregnant by him and gave birth to Bumin, the first khan of the Gokturks. So, as I see it, this means that Asena was seen as a mother off all Turks...is that right? I was told that the female members of the Grey Wolves are called symbolically Asena; as I see it as a symbol of a mythical rebirth, something like situation oneself into the "sacred space" /after my favourite Eliade/.

The wolf is a very strong archetypal image for quite a few different cultures - the Romans, as I recall some Native American tribes, the Serbs /a polar wolf was seen as their ancestor, I'm talking here about South Slavic pagan mythology/, in Ukraine a white wolf is a forest spirit, turning people in wolves is a motif in the Slavic paganism that became a frequent motif in the fairy tales; not to forget the medieval European wolf/turning motif that continues...into today's mass novel/movie culture.

Edited by Don Quixote - 30-May-2013 at 13:00
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2013 at 04:26
Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by yomud

tengri is god of just and wrath who sit on altay and punish the people with thunderbolt LOL 

If you know lot, please tell me. My sources says different thing. According to them, Tengri doesn't have any shape also I believe there is something like trinity(this my idea)

Christianity        Greek Paganism     Tengrism/Mongol-Turkic Paganism
Holy Spirit            Uranos                                 Tengri
God                      Kronos                                 Kayra Han
Jesus                    Zeus                                    Ülgen

Ulgen is son of Kayra han and he is the one who can send thunders.


 

yeas we cant tell tengri has shape but he is able to do anything and everything begins  with him and thunder is angry voice of him and lightning is his wrath  or arrow

http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/tatar/turk.html
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