Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Iranian obsession with Nordic features

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iranian obsession with Nordic features
    Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 06:34
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Maybe these people who you are saying have no pride in their country, are feeling isolated and discriminated against within their own country, while at the same time showing pride in their own ethnic background as a part of that country.


Well, the problem is they're not taking pride of themselves as citizens of "their" country. They want to be independent, like the Arabs in the south who want to establish an Arab independent state. Also, they're being discriminated against probably because they're regarded as aliens in Iran or because they're rebelious.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Considering what you're saying about Iranic ethnic group, which means that they are ethnically diverse too, and other ethnic groups, being ethnically diverse on its own is unlikely to be what is causing problems.


The Iranians maybe ethnically diverse but are also racially united to some degree. They're not causing the real trouble. The non-Iranic ethnic groups are the real threat.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Let me ask you this, Shamshir, when those from any of the groups you're suggesting are problematic to Iran, do something notable and good, do you see it as something which makes you proud to be Iranian over?


First, I'm not an Iranian citizen. Second, your question is difficult. Smile
If any non-Iranian does a good thing to Iran then he/she would undoubtly gain my respect. But to be honest with you Alani, he/she would still be regarded as foreigner even if he/she happens to be living in Iran as a citizen. Embarrassed
Others might disagree with me and even accuse me of being immoral. But I have my own reasons to be a proud Iranian. Again, I'm not a supremacist.


Edited by Shamshir - 09-Feb-2013 at 06:42
Back to Top
Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 06:43
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

As for the mixing of peoples being at least 1400 years, you can at least double that, and then go for at least a good few hundred years, considering what has already been said about the mixing of peoples involved with the Iranic invasion of the Iranian Plateau.


I agree. However, the native inhabitants of the Iranian plateau were assimilated rather quickly to the point where they have become indistinguishable from the Iranians. But when racial mixing happens on a massive scale with so many races involved just as in post-Islamic Iran then we have serious problem.
Back to Top
Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 07:00
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

If Iranian culture had its roots in Africa, SOME Iranians would have an obsession with Black African features! You should blame the ancient Iranian culture, not those Iranians who love to relate themselves to their ancestors.


You completely misunderstood me. Smile

I have no problem with fellow Iranians who love to relate themselves to their ancestors, because I love to do so myself. LOL Also, they wouldn't take pride of being Africans if that would be the case, and we all know why. Here I'm afraid we have a problem of "inferiority complex" with SOME modern Iranians. They love to relate themselves to the Europeans because they look up to them as the masters of modern civilization. And please, dear Cyrus, don't deny that, because we both know that this is a fact!


Edited by Shamshir - 09-Feb-2013 at 07:03
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 07:29
Originally posted by Shamshir

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

If Iranian culture had its roots in Africa, SOME Iranians would have an obsession with Black African features! You should blame the ancient Iranian culture, not those Iranians who love to relate themselves to their ancestors.


You completely misunderstood me. Smile

I have no problem with fellow Iranians who love to relate themselves to their ancestors, because I love to do so myself. LOL Also, they wouldn't take pride of being Africans if that would be the case, and we all know why. Here I'm afraid we have a problem of "inferiority complex" with SOME modern Iranians. They love to relate themselves to the Europeans because they look up to them as the masters of modern civilization. And please, dear Cyrus, don't deny that, because we both know that this is a fact!
 
You are mixing two different things here, one thing is that some people in Iran or any other country try to relate themselves to the European just because, as you said, they look up to them as the masters of modern civilization, but another thing is that some people in Iran see more cultural relations between themselves and Europans and for this reason, they try to relate themselves to them.
 
The second thing has a very long history in Iran, even from those days when the European were in the Dark Ages, today almost everyone knows that Europeans and Iranians have a common cultural origin.
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084
  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 07:35
Originally posted by Shamshir

Well, the problem is they're not taking pride of themselves as citizens of "their" country. They want to be independent, like the Arabs in the south who want to establish an Arab independent state. Also, they're being discriminated against probably because they're regarded as aliens in Iran or because they're rebelious.
On the contrary, Shamshir, it would seem that they take pride of themselves in the country geographically speaking, albeit that piece that they’re after being independent.  This is always such a difficult affair, Shamshir, for you either allow them their right to have their say in their future, or infringe their human rights. There’s one thing for sure, them being treated like aliens in what you regard as their own country, instead of simply being seen as being rebellious, will reassure them that if they’re being treated like they don’t belong to Iran, then the land they are occupying has no place being Iranian either.

Originally posted by Shamshir

The Iranians maybe ethnically diverse but are also racially united to some degree. They're not causing the real trouble. The non-Iranic ethnic groups are the real threat.
Regardless of who is doing what to who, this sounds like cultural differences over DNA, rather than the other way around.
Originally posted by Shamshir

First, I'm not an Iranian citizen. Second, your question is difficult. Smile
If any non-Iranian does a good thing to Iran then he/she would undoubtly gain my respect. But to be honest with you Alani, he/she would still be regarded as foreigner even if he/she happens to be living in Iran as a citizen. 
Others might disagree with me and even accuse me of being immoral. But I have my own reasons to be a proud Iranian. Again, I'm not a supremacist.
I’ve heard of similar things elsewhere, and what started the trouble is the lack of respect visibly being shown in a way that they can say that they believe that they are being shown equality.  It is very difficult however to measure if such a situation can be retrieve after it gets to a certain position as you’ve talked about.
Originally posted by Shamshir

I agree. However, the native inhabitants of the Iranian plateau were assimilated rather quickly to the point where they have become indistinguishable from the Iranians. But when racial mixing happens on a massive scale with so many races involved just as in post-Islamic Iran then we have serious problem.
Now that depends if that how you want to see it, Shamshir, you could equally exchange the last word of that statement with the word opportunities, and could be equally correct.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 08:08
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

..., but another thing is that some people in Iran see more cultural relations between themselves and Europans and for this reason, they try to relate themselves to them.


Why am I not surprised that this isn't happening the other way around?!
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 10:52
Originally posted by Shamshir

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

..., but another thing is that some people in Iran see more cultural relations between themselves and Europans and for this reason, they try to relate themselves to them.


Why am I not surprised that this isn't happening the other way around?!
 
You should be surprised because some European people such as Croats, Bulgarians, Serbs and etc really try ro relate themselves to the Iranians.
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699
  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2013 at 23:03
if iranians are related to germans, how come their genetics are so different? Genetically Iranians are a people of west asia, with very limited genetic influence from outside 
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 10:38
Originally posted by balochii

if iranians are related to germans, how come their genetics are so different? Genetically Iranians are a people of west asia, with very limited genetic influence from outside 
 
It is certainly more cultural relation than ethnic relation, of course by Iranian I didn't mean just the people of Iran, Ossetians, Tats, Tajiks, Wakhis, ... who live far from Iran have probably more relation to the original Iranians.
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 11:18
Originally posted by balochii

if iranians are related to germans, how come their genetics are so different? Genetically Iranians are a people of west asia, with very limited genetic influence from outside 
 
I think the relationship is just a perception based on the shared physical features.  Then factor in that Germany is an advanced nation today with a reputation for military prowess and engineering efficiency.  Being related to Germans is sexy!-  even if you are not truly related to them.
 
My guess is that light complected genetic traits developed independently amongst people that were later generally classifed as "nordics", "indo aryans" and "proto persians?".
 
In short, the perceived relationship between Iranians and Germans seems to be like saying that Adamman Islanders look like Africans, therefore, they are closely related.
 


Edited by Cryptic - 12-Feb-2013 at 11:23
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699
  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 11:27
^ well the light features found among Pamiri, Kalash, Nuristani, Tajiks, Pashtuns could indeed be related to the indo europeans, because these populations show  the north east European genetic component at anywhere from 15-30% range, Pamiri Tajiks for example have higher rate of blondism and blue eyes than anyone in the region and they show the European component in them at almost 30%, but present day Iran being such a big land, doesn't show much of this genetic component, at the most they will have 5-10%. Iranians are far more mixed with other middle easterners than any of the other populations I mentioned

The aryans/indo iranians probably took the route of present day Tajikistan/Afghanistan, they probably settled there too. Once they got mixed, they probably went to places like Iran and india


Edited by balochii - 12-Feb-2013 at 11:30
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 13:47
Originally posted by Cryptic

 
I think the relationship is just a perception based on the shared physical features.  Then factor in that Germany is an advanced nation today with a reputation for military prowess and engineering efficiency.  Being related to Germans is sexy!-  even if you are not truly related to them.
 
My guess is that light complected genetic traits developed independently amongst people that were later generally classifed as "nordics", "indo aryans" and "proto persians?".
 
In short, the perceived relationship between Iranians and Germans seems to be like saying that Adamman Islanders look like Africans, therefore, they are closely related.
 
The problem is that you also think that Iranians were just the people of Iran but the fact is that for almost a long time Iranian and Germanic peoples lived almost in the same land, and some of them had even the same king, like Vandals and Alans or Goths and Scythians.
Back to Top
Yekta View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119
  Quote Yekta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 11:12
Again, no one is denying the fact that there has been interaction between some Iranic groups and people surrounding them but that does not make the Iranics an extension of those people. There has also been longer and more continuous connection between Iranic groups and Arabs or Turks but, just go and tell any Iranic group that they are Arabs or Turks and see what kind of reaction you'll receive. Forget Iranics/Iranians, go to Scandinavia, pick any country and tell them they are some Brits who want to be something else or convince Sàmi People as some confused Germans.

Are we to believe that all the people, ethnicities and nations who came in contact with us have existed since the dawn of time and we Iranian people are just a mixture of them? How are we to imagin the early human migrations? Those people had wings and didn't pass through middle east by foot and none setteled in between! They just landed in Northern Europe and China. A book is not as pure as a page you riped from it? 
The fire that never dies burns in our hearts.
Back to Top
Yekta View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119
  Quote Yekta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 12:36
Almost entire separatist movements is guided by non-Iranic ethnic groups. Iran is daily bombarded by Arabic/Turkish media and historical TV series while most of the IRIB content is Islamic and Quranic which few want to watch or listen to! 
The fire that never dies burns in our hearts.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 13:04
We don't talk about Turks, Arabs and other different peoples but just related peoples, it is very important to know about the relation between two related people who live alongside each other and two other ones who live far from each other, for example about the Iranian people, it is obvious that there is a more strong relation between Mazandaranis and Gilakis than the relation between them and Baluchis.
 
The same thing can be said about the Indo-European people, there is a more strong relation between Iranians and Germanic people than other Indo-European people, they are the only people who worshiped just Goda/Khoda, their leader was called Kian/King and their greatest festival was Yalda/Yuletide and many many other things.
Back to Top
Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 15:32
Originally posted by Yekta

Almost entire separatist movements is guided by non-Iranic ethnic groups. Iran is daily bombarded by Arabic/Turkish media and historical TV series while most of the IRIB content is Islamic and Quranic which few want to watch or listen to! 


True. I'm living in an Arab country; the extent of anti-Iranism here is so shocking that it makes me hate the whole society. Been always wondering why we are so much hated by almost everybody!

BTW, my father is a hardcore fan of IRIB. He is a devout Muslim so I can't argue with him! Actually, my whole family turned their backs to Iran. This should tell us that not only everyone hates Iranians, but some Iranians also hate themselves!

We truely are surrounded and infiltrated by our enemies. Cry


Edited by Shamshir - 14-Feb-2013 at 15:34
Back to Top
Yekta View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119
  Quote Yekta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 15:36
Cyrus,

I like reading your posts and although my health does not permit me to participate more actively I've always learned a lot from you and enjoy reading the topics you pick. Yes, Iranic people are diverse with rich/proud history. Surely we can talk about our past relatives and common cultural/historical heritage. Unfortunately you can not do that without getting the ethnic or self centric view and counter-reaction of the Northern Europeans. You're bound to be marked as a not "wanna be" HOT, as if our world circles around their acceptance. That is what I want to avoid Cyrus and I find it very degenerating and insulting toward Iranians. Strange enough some Africans see middle easterners as some watered-down blacks. What are we to conclude from such color-oriented views?

You can also see this mentioned in different post under this very topic. They even see Eastern Europeans as lightly mixed population. They are IT and the rest of the world is a mixture of this and that + some few IT if you get lucky. So, I don't see why you even want to make that connection. I personally find Turks and Germans more related than any Iranians, have you ever been in Turkish neighborhoods in some parts of Germany? My son and my grandfather are related but my son can't even pronounce my grandfather's name.
The fire that never dies burns in our hearts.
Back to Top
Yekta View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119
  Quote Yekta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 16:07
Originally posted by Shamshir

Originally posted by Yekta

Almost entire separatist movements is guided by non-Iranic ethnic groups. Iran is daily bombarded by Arabic/Turkish media and historical TV series while most of the IRIB content is Islamic and Quranic which few want to watch or listen to! 


True. I'm living in an Arab country; the extent of anti-Iranism here is so shocking that it makes me hate the whole society. Been always wondering why we are so much hated by almost everybody!

BTW, my father is a hardcore fan of IRIB. He is a devout Muslim so I can't argue with him! Actually, my whole family turned their backs to Iran. This should tell us that not only everyone hates Iranians, but some Iranians also hate themselves!

We truely are surrounded and infiltrated by our enemies. Cry


If it was up to me, when it come to Islamic republic of Iran, I'd wish away the Islamic and Republic part of it. None of them has been beneficial to Iran or it's people. I've seen many nations like Americans, Jews, Germans, Kurds say that the rest of the world just hates them and that they have many enemies and I find it to be mostly false and untrue.

Iranians do not have that many enemies and I can compare some particular separatist groups with a small blow-fish, more than what they appear to be. I would say that our problem is a incompatible government.


Edited by Yekta - 16-Feb-2013 at 04:46
The fire that never dies burns in our hearts.
Back to Top
Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 16:58
Originally posted by Yekta

Iranians do not have that many enemies and I can compare some particular separatist groups with a small blow-fish, more than what they appear to be. I would say that our problem is a incompatible government.


What about the Turks, the Arabs, the Russians and the West? History has shown us that those can pose a serious threat to Iran. History has also shown us that we shouldn't be underestimating the power of the seperatist groups in Iran. Indeed, we do have many problems among which is the IR that is a result of both religious zeal and Western Imperialism.
Back to Top
Yekta View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119
  Quote Yekta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2013 at 17:56
Originally posted by Shamshir

Originally posted by Yekta

Iranians do not have that many enemies and I can compare some particular separatist groups with a small blow-fish, more than what they appear to be. I would say that our problem is a incompatible government.


What about the Turks, the Arabs, the Russians and the West? History has shown us that those can pose a serious threat to Iran. History has also shown us that we shouldn't be underestimating the power of the seperatist groups in Iran. Indeed, we do have many problems among which is the IR that is a result of both religious zeal and Western Imperialism.


I do not see them as enemies, I see them as opportunists who see a unjust and unstable government and want to benefit the most from it. They are the ones keeping the IRI alive. They want to milk the cow but safely dehorned. No, I do not underestimate separatists but I'm happy that they are active, they benefit us, their actions and ethnocentrism is awakening national feelings among Iranians and other Iranian ethnic groups which is very uniting and useful to those who take pride in Iran.
The fire that never dies burns in our hearts.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.051 seconds.