Holocaust - Truth.. Lie.. Denial .. ??

Hello to all ..   I wish to speak about the Holocaust..    I'm not a historian, but I believe historians must speak about all themes and don't have taboos..

You comment is very interesting.  Yes, most of the academic historians regard the holocaust deniers as pseudo-historians...

While the Nazis never processed corpses into soap (a similar accusation was leveled against the Germans during WWI), they did commit many horrific acts on a large scale. There are cases of Germans photographing themselves in the act of shooting prisoners and (at Buchenwald) using tattooed skin to make lampshades

I do appreciate that you bring up this topic even though it's quite controversial and somewhat taboo. Yet I think that you forget to mention something else which is that most of these so called 'Holocaust deniers' aren't actually denying that the holocaust happened, but that it didn't happen in what they believe is a propagandised and hyped up version. It is clear from historical proof that the holocaust (kind of a misnomer since no one got burned) did in fact happen and that many Jews were either detained or executed in the famous concentration camps in Auschwitz, Dachau...etc. Anyone denying that the holocaust happened is playing an agenda or simply biased in some way.

Though, I personally believe that the image of the holocaust in the public mind is not very well defined and is exagerated. First of all, most people know of the atrocities committed by the Germans and what most people would reffer to is that Jews were executed in gas chambers. I do believe that it was the case for one main reason, there is no proof that the gas chambers (or furnaces) were used to execute people. As a matter of fact, no inmates were gassed in Dachau while they were alive as a lot of people may believe. The crematoriums were used to burn dead bodies which were infected with contagious diseases



A lot of people seem to forgo the initial objective of a concentration camp which is supposed to function like a jail. It seems to me that there would have been no point of making these camps if the Nazis wished to 'exterminate' the Jewish race which sounds like propaganda to me. The Nazis were a right wing conservative party who wished to take control of Germany and the Jews were working against Hitler's 'patriotic' interests. I do not argue that Jews didn't die in the holocaust, but I don't believe it amounted to 7 million (there aren't even that many Jews in the US atm, let alone in Germany 65 years ago!) and I don't believe that they were gassed. There is proof though that the Nazis allowed scientists to perform some pretty sick tests on them. Joseph Mengele was a leader in this type of research at Auschwitz where he burned some subjects, tore their limbs out and even crushed some skulls to test the resistance of human skulls!

Other ethnic groups were killed by the Germans, but the Jews and Slavs suffered most. The 6 million includes not just German Jews, but also Jews from Poland, Russia and Western Europe

It is pure insane folly to state the Holocaust didn't happen

Edited by tjadams - 05-Dec-2011 at 20:19

That's sadly true Oll.

Originally posted by Baal Melqart @CV I read the link that you posted, apparently both this Broad fellow and Hoess make a sworn statement that the gassings happened and they both describe the methods in which this occured. The only digergence was in some minor details and the time it took the victims to die. Hoess might have been coerced by the allies but Broad seems to be quite neutral. So I must withdraw my earlier statement, it seems that Jews were gassed, I didn't use to think they did, I thought it was propaganda... @ Nick Idk, it seems to me that when Jews declared war on the Germans, already many of the Jews residing in Germany must have sensed some impemding tragedy and fled. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html That's why I think that although there were many Jews in the concentration camp from other countries as well, I still think that 6-7 million is a big exageration. Hell, even according to CV's link the biggest crematorium in Auschwitz could only gas 500,000 people a year and that was at its most improved prototype. The link also says that the Nazis had a lot of trouble with the crematorium because it would seldom break. The other camps had a much lower capacity and weren't used as much as the one in Auschwitz. I think 1.5 million may be truer, though I'm curious to know exactly how they came up with these numbers.

Since when did "the Jews" declare war on Germany? They didn't even have their own country in 1939

Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Baal Melqart @CV I read the link that you posted, apparently both this Broad fellow and Hoess make a sworn statement that the gassings happened and they both describe the methods in which this occured. The only digergence was in some minor details and the time it took the victims to die. Hoess might have been coerced by the allies but Broad seems to be quite neutral. So I must withdraw my earlier statement, it seems that Jews were gassed, I didn't use to think they did, I thought it was propaganda... @ Nick Idk, it seems to me that when Jews declared war on the Germans, already many of the Jews residing in Germany must have sensed some impemding tragedy and fled. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html That's why I think that although there were many Jews in the concentration camp from other countries as well, I still think that 6-7 million is a big exageration. Hell, even according to CV's link the biggest crematorium in Auschwitz could only gas 500,000 people a year and that was at its most improved prototype. The link also says that the Nazis had a lot of trouble with the crematorium because it would seldom break. The other camps had a much lower capacity and weren't used as much as the one in Auschwitz. I think 1.5 million may be truer, though I'm curious to know exactly how they came up with these numbers. Since when did "the Jews" declare war on Germany? They didn't even have their own country in 1939

As Ollios said, it was a solely economic war which was actually quite successful in angering the Germans. The Jews managed to strangle the German economy by coercing most nations and banks to stop trading with Germany. But it was an act of war since all world Jewry were on a single page, no trading with the Nazis.

Originally posted by red clay The numbers are based on the Nazis own records.  They kept impeccable records on everything.   Baal wrote-   As Ollios said, it was a solely economic war which was actually quite successful in angering the Germans. The Jews managed to strangle the German economy by coercing most nations and banks to stop trading with Germany. But it was an act of war since all world Jewry were on a single page, no trading with the Nazis.   This is the Great Myth, "the International Jewish Conspiracy".  It's what the Nazis used to justify their actions.  Your repeating the "big lie".   Joe Goebbels would be proud.

I posted a link above of the Newspaper article... Otherwise, how is it the Great Myth, I don't understand why Jews wouldn't stick together against the Germans.