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AK-47 or M-16? NATO or Warsaw?

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Poll Question: Which one do you think was better?The good old Kelesh or the mighty?
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DukeC View Drop Down
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AK-47 or M-16? NATO or Warsaw?
    Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 02:17

Originally posted by Illuminati

The new gun that the US Army is going to adopt is going to destroy both the M-16 and AK-47

XM29 - Its better with environmental factors than bot the M-16 and AK-47. There ar a few different models that are being worked with. They are still playing around with teh XM29 to try and make it a bit lighter, but it is supposed to place the M-16 as the standard weapon for the US military. They are planning on getting it into the Army gradually by having 4 OICW XM29's per 9 man squad. Eventually, it'll take over




Any more info on the XM29. Is that a 12-gauge above the automatic rifle. Nasty looking weapon by the way!

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xristar View Drop Down
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 06:18

Ehm..., you can't actually compare all these rifles. They have different logic.

The AK-47 is too old to be compared to M-16, it uses bigger bullets which causes lot of recoil. Especially the G3 uses 7.62mm NATO bullets, with which automatic fire is pretty much useless. The 7.62 NATO bullet has 3000-3500 J muzzle energy, while the 5.56 NATO has like 1500 J. The M-16 has a limited range compared to G3 and other such rifles (M14, FN FAL), but can actually fire automatically. I think that the british version of the FAL didn't even have automatic fire as an option.

The M-16A2 is considered one of the best 5.56 rifles, as it has solved its reliability issues.

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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 09:29

I've used the AK and the M-16. Fortunately for me, I fired those weapons (and some other) only in training, I haven't actually been involved in a real military conflict. I would say that the M-16 would have been a better choice for me (when carrying a gun in a 40 km march I think that I would have preffered anything lighter than that  4 kg piece of wood and metal!). Nevertheless, I think that the AK is better, just like the T-34 was the best tank in WWII. There are a lot of other weapons that are superior to the AK, but that doesn't mean that the AK became obsolete or useless. It does what it was designed to do! It is not a brilliant weapon, it is the best weapon of choice.

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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 11:41
For my part AK-47 is the best!
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 13:13

I prefer M-16 for style,AK-47 for sound,and G3 for weight.

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 08:59
as both are ARs the firing rate is not important.

Firing rate is only important when u want to have conc. cone of fire. e.g. MGs & SAWs

One bullet is usually enough to stop a guy, however as AK uses 7.62, rather than 5.56 rounds they have a greater stopping power.

I have never ran a obstacle course with both of them, but anecdotal evidence suggest that the AK is hardier (breaks and IAs), and you want a hardier rifle when you go out.

The AK is supposedly slower to strip assemble and clean than the M16.

The AK is heavier, due to the fact that it is not made of composites materials, but if you want a really light rifle what for go for M16A1? go for the carbine, it is exactly the same as the M16 except with a foldable buttstock and couple of cms shorter barrel and almost a kilo lighter.

And i still think that semi-auto rather than burst is most commonly used by most armies. the only reason to use burst is if you are within like 40 metres of the enemy when you engage, e.g. street fighting or CQB.
That is why in the mode selector, it goes safe, semi then auto.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 11:25
I would argue for the new models of the m-16, although the comment about the carbine is also valid.
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  Quote Turkic10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 13:55

Originally posted by wshall

I would argue for the new models of the m-16, although the comment about the carbine is also valid.

Yes, but the AK-47 is a better club in close combat! 

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  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 23:10
I think one thing many individuals fail to consider is that the M-16 was rushed into production without a great deal of testing.  It took the Soviets almost 10 years to iron out the kinks of the AK-47.
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  Quote Attila2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2005 at 14:16
I dont think if they are still using ye olde AK-47s with 7.62 Warsaw pacts, They are replaced with AK-74s(which use 5.56 mm) AFAIK...
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2005 at 14:20

Originally posted by Attila2

I dont think if they are still using ye olde AK-47s with 7.62 Warsaw pacts, They are replaced with AK-74s(which use 5.56 mm) AFAIK...

Doesn't the AK-74 fire 5.45 mm.

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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2005 at 04:07

Yes.

New AKs use however the 5.56mm NATO bullets!

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 06:49

Seems that the old classic G3 is now history in the Greek army. The agreement for their replacement by G36 has just been signed. The ammunition they use is new NATO standard, 5,56 mm and the order is to be executed "immediatelly" for 115,000 rifles. Overall value is 250,000,000 Euros, so a bit less than 2,200 per piece... I wonder how much they cost in retail.

Here's the picture.



Edited by Yiannis
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 14:37

!

I always had the impression that the M16 would succeed the G3 in the Greek army. Afterall the army already has many M16 in use with the special forces.

I think that 115000 pieces are not so many. I don't know how exactly infantry operates, but I think it seems the G3 will remain in use with the rest 200000+ infantrymen that supposedly Greece will present in a possible war.

Btw, I have the impression that the greek army is gradually copying the german in more and more aspects.

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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 21:40
Ah Yes the G36, I have to go with this rifle. I am More of a fan of the G3 than any of the weapons up there but its only the best of a bad lot. The M-16 is much to malfunction prone. While the AK is to inaccrurate. I mean after your 5th shot it becomes an anti-aircraft weapon!
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 01:52

Originally posted by Hector Victorious

Ah Yes the G36, I have to go with this rifle. I am More of a fan of the G3 than any of the weapons up there but its only the best of a bad lot. The M-16 is much to malfunction prone. While the AK is to inaccrurate. I mean after your 5th shot it becomes an anti-aircraft weapon!

I fired something like 3000 rounds with only two different AK47. I noticed no inaccuracy developing. Inaccuracy is related to maintenance, you take care of your weapons, they will work fine.

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 04:53

Xristar, 115,000 are the initial order. I'm sure the G3 will be kept as back up in the warehouses and G36 will be the rifle for the operational units. How many soldiers we have operative now? 30,000 Professionals and I bet, no more than 50,000 drafted, especially after the latest reductions of military service. Isn't is supposed to become 6-8 months soon?

 



Edited by Yiannis
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 10:02
Originally posted by DukeC

Any more info on the XM29. Is that a 12-gauge above the automatic rifle. Nasty looking weapon by the way!

That's actually a 20 mm grenade launcher.  I heard these weapons have a lot of problems which is only to be expected with a new sytem.  The grenade launcher is not that lethal, and the gun itself is very expensive, heavy, and bulky.

Still though, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one.

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  Quote Hector Victorious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 17:32
I Actually heard those weapons are extremly heavy aroun 18-20 lbs! But the Grenade leanucher offers a lot of new ablititys
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2005 at 13:20

Yiannis, probably the G36 will equip the actual combatants, and the G3 the supportive units.

I don't know if the service will be reduced to 6-8 months. Karamanlis had said before the elections that it will reduce to 6 months, but the Army does not like it, as it will cost seriously to the readiness of the army. I heard that the service was planned to be reduced to 11 months, but the Minister of Defence has not spoken about it yet.

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