Freedom for Palestine

Originally posted by Nick1986 The Jews of the Classical era were a completely different people to modern Jews, most of whom are of Slavic descent.

No. They are the same people as genetic studies have shown. In fact the similarity with the genes of people in Levant is surprising.

To say that the modern Jews are of Slavic descent is just lighlty.

Edited by Menumorut - 02-Oct-2011 at 15:49

Agree with you Nick,genetic spreed sheets now days,look the same as betting house's catalogs.Info that will
help is fact that in Egyptian period,Sinai was place where military&administration people lived.That's a lot of
skilled people.I forgot priests,sorry!

I could no more support that the eradication of the lame or the blind, people of color or a WASP... as, imo, it smacks of a mentality of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 03-Oct-2011 at 03:15

Centrix Vigilis, if you know nothing about the dangerous ideology of Islam, it will be really better that you don't talk about it, Nazists killed millions of people and there were some people like you who blindy supported them without knowing anything about their true beliefs.

Originally posted by Menumorut The references about the historical persecution of non-Muslims by Muslims was a correction to one of Nick's messages. Why you bring Christianity here? It has no relevance, as we talk about Islam.

Actually, your religion perspective is a bit unrelevant. it can be just second-third class topic. We are talking about a political situation. But, you don't want to see political(real, direct reason of conflict) side of issue and starting to talk about second class topics. Issue is politic conflict and politic problems like embargo and borders. Today, Israel capital is Jaruselam(in jewish laws), but after the arab-Israel war1949, Israel took just west part of the city, not all!!! but when Egypt and Jordan left those lands in 1967, they start occupasions and built Israel settlements. why all embassies in Israel are in Tel Aviv???

Christianity just for example against your idea about Islam. How similar two religion about historical and using both them for teror or killing. You are putting same fruits in the different baskets.

Originally posted by Menumorut 1. Yes, I deny.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 03-Oct-2011 at 11:23

Let's all just calm down. Why does every Palestine thread have to turn into a flame war?

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Both you and Centrix Vigilis, removed the first part of my sentence to change the meaning of my irony post, I said that I'm myself a Muslim, almost everyone that I know is also a Muslim, isn't it silly to say "we should kill each other that other people of the world live more safe!!!"

Sorry but if Centrix Vigilis did same thing too, it also show that your sentences is a sentence which can be misinterpreted.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri I just talk about a dangerous ideology based on a book named Quran, you can call it Islam, Islamism or any other thing, you can read in that the only true religion is Islam and the followers of other religions should believe in this religion, otherwise Muslims should fight and kill them.

Every religions say similar thing, just it is true one and I am just trying to show that it is in every religion, so you can't fight religion, you can discuss just bad rules or applications.

Do you thing I will still support Hamas attacks agaisnt civils after solution of border problem? or Israel can use embargo for guns or gun materials but people in there can't export their goods as flowers and Christian in Gaza couldn't see Pope, because Israel just gave permission for limited people How can you hope, they can feel good things against Israel?

You should know that if you target more small areas. For most of your example, I can support you like execution of mr.x just being non-muslim in Iran or any country. But not your wars agaist Islam or any other religion. In every religion some people killed or are still killing people just for their believes.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri It is really better to talk about Islam in another thread, let's back to the main topic. I think there can be a Palestinian state after a regime change in Syria and then in Iran, if Hamas and Hizbullah lose their major sponsors, we can hope to see a stability in the region, I believe a non-Islamic regime in Iran will certainly support Israel, during the post-election demonstrations in Iran one of the main slogans was "Death to Gaza", it shows Iranians really hate the terrorists.

Hamas isn't like Al-Qaide. The State of Palestine is governed by democracy and Hamas won the last election so it doesn't seem fair to me, waiting for elected goverment gone.
Hamas has 76 seat
Fatah has 46 seat (they were last goverment)

In my opinion, Palestinians are oppressed side, today.
*taking lands, building jewish settelments
*refugees
*too stick embargo

I send photo in UK and Greece to, it is not just about religion. If non-Islamic regime in Iran support Israel, I believe that these Iranian just try to take revenge from their past goverment. That's why they support Israel.

I can guarantee it, if Israel go back to 1967 borders, get lighter the embargo(just ban the guns) and Hamas still attack Israeli civils, Turkish goverment and nation support will definately be minimize. Being agaist today's Israel policy is one the unique thing for Turkish left and right politic sides.

and slogans like "Death to Gaza" (Iran) or "Arabs to the crematoria"(Israel) and buring Israel flag(Turkey), these acts are just results of anger, madness
 
about Syria, I don't think Esad is a global or reginal threat (but I can't speak for his own country Syria, I don't know). His period is the best time in Syrian-Turkish relations and it is still better than the old bad times. 

I can understand why Arab countries attack Israel in 1947 because just in 50 years lands demograph really changed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine


However, today I support Israel existence(but with 1967 borders). You can't deny it. Hamas or any Palestinian politic side should recognize Israel existence

My happy end;
*Israel return 1967 borders.
*Syria take Golan Heights, then Syria finish support attacks agaist Israeli civils
*Refugees in Lebanon and all round the world, return Palestine, it also help to reduce tension in Lebanon and be reason of Hizbullah power decrasing in Lebanon
*Palestine recognise Israel and stop attacks
*Israel stop miliarty attacks and embargo, also destroy the defense wall
*Israel apologies from Turkey, then Turkey start to make politic contact again
*Israel change the Jerusalem Law/Basic Law and just make West Jarusalem is capital and all UN accept it(because UN don't accept the Jerusalem Law)

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1980_1989/Basic%20Law-%20Jerusalem-%20Capital%20of%20Israel

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/dde590c6ff232007852560df0065fddb?OpenDocument

The History of the Middle East Conflict in 11 Minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZY8m0cm1oY&feature=player_embedded#!


I originally got this from Walid Shoebat a former PLO terrorist.

http://www.shoebat.com/videos/MEconflict.htm

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by Nick1986 It's a pity we don't have punishments like that in the UK for all the thieves, murderers and child molesters overfilling our prisons. On the other hand, be careful not to confuse the Islamic religion with the Islamist political ideology similar to 17th century Puritanism. All Islamists are Muslims, but not every Muslim is an Islamist   These punishments are not for just those ones but wine drinkers, girlfriends of boys, boyfriends of girls, dancers, gamblers, women with no hijab, ... let's not fool ourselves, the problem is just Islam, the first group that you call Muslims are some people who don't follow Islamic laws and the second group that you call Islamists are real followers of Islam. I'm myself a Muslim, more than 80 percent of Iranians call themselves Muslims but drink wine, dance in parties, love gambling, ... but always fear of real Muslims.

You've been shown a false image of Islam. Idk how things are in Iran but to say that Islamists are real muslims is untrue.

What you mentioned about the Christian apostate being killed for leaving Islam, that punishment is not sound and is against Islam and I can prove it. It is mentioned in hadiths that the murtadeen or apostates should be fought and killed at any possible chance. Yet this no longer applies nowadays since it was only valid in the context in which it was said. That being that treason in islam is forbidden and punishable by death. When the hadith was made, Muslims who joined Muhammad had not only pledged to be muslims but also to fight against the pagan Arabs who were more numerous and were on a 'witch-hunt' against muslims. In that context, rejecting the faith meant leaving one's muslim brothers at the hands of the people of Quraysh. So because in those days apostacy was equated with treason, it was punishable by death. Nowadays, to kill someone for apostacy makes no sense since they would not be 'betraying' the muslim community...

Again, as for drinking, the punishment is receiving 100 lashes, not death. Same punishment applies to fornication.