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Topic ClosedHuns and mongols were all caucasian!!

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Huns and mongols were all caucasian!!
    Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 10:20
Originally posted by Cryptic

In regards to China, who are the indigenous people of north China and are there any still existing as distict people?

South China seems to have indigenous population such as Miao and Yi peoples.  Are these people truly the indigenous people in south China?  Also are Miao and Yi historically asiatic people, or are they historicaly Australoid people who have mixed with asiatic people and today have an asiatic appereance?
 
I am asking these questions because the indigenous people in south India are negrito and Australoid. Ainu people from Japan are also Australoid (light complected).  Maybe Australoid migration went Africa - India - Sri Lanka - Burma and then north into China and Japan.   
 
The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
 
Prehistorical China is not as haplogroup-ward unified as today. Haplogroup D, C, Q ,N were attested in considerable perentage( 30-50%) in neolithic sites dating from 90000BC to 3000BC. They are found in central northern and southern China along with haplogroup O1-2-3. It was untill 1300BC, typical haplogroup O population started to become a majority as we see today. I do not consider ainus and jomons as non-mongoloid or australoid, theire major haplogroups are D and C, which cluster closely to O and N. Only haplogroup Q belongs rather to a northern type of mongoloid population and haplogroup O are found spread all over China during the last 10000 years. The mongoloid haplogroups found in melanesian and australoid population are rather a result of southward migration from ancient China, which was home to many different mongoloid haplogroups : D,C,N,O,Q.
 
My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture. Many ethnic chinese do not belong to majority O haplogroup, if given the information about diversified ethnic ancient culture, it may cause ethnic dispute over chinese history, it is what our government fears. It is why there is almost no genetic information on chinese
ethnography. What I tell here is from chinese forums where some rich posters had access to the censored genetic information. They also charge high fee for downloading genetic articles, not less than 200USD per article. I am just poor poster for now. Confused
 
Example of southern chinese ethnics, which has majority haplogroup N, D similiar to those of saamis in Finland and ainus in Japan. I believe, they were as indegenous as other ethnic chinese people:
 
Yi ethnic chinese, Sichuan, southwestern China.
Here is a man of Haplogroup N.
 
Man of Haplogroup D from Tibet China:
 
 
I can not find examples of Q and C, since they are rare in modern China, but you can refer to
amerindian and siberian people/eskimos, chukchis which still have up to 30% Q an C.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 22-Jul-2011 at 10:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 09:05

In regards to China, who are the indigenous people of north China and are there any still existing as distict people?

South China seems to have indigenous population such as Miao and Yi peoples.  Are these people truly the indigenous people in south China?  Also are Miao and Yi historically asiatic people, or are they historicaly Australoid people who have mixed with asiatic people and today have an asiatic appereance?
 
I am asking these questions because the indigenous people in south India are negrito and Australoid. Ainu people from Japan are also Australoid (light complected).  Maybe Australoid migration went Africa - India - Sri Lanka - Burma and then north into China and Japan.   


Edited by Cryptic - 22-Jul-2011 at 09:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 20:42
Originally posted by AmirT

I must say that OP is quite ignorant.

If you say that Mongols were Caucasian then YOUmust provide the prove.

Many Turkic tribes who lived in Central-Asia (Tatars for example) at first had conflicts but after they joined Genkhis Khan.

They were known for their horsemanship, did you ever tried to ride a horse in the mountains of the Caucasus at the same way as the Mongols did?
People living in the steppe is the most logical answer to this.


 
The proof is western asians had been left pure western asians, and central asia has been mixed up by europids more than by mongoloids. Genetics show the mixing caused by Mongol empire is from the west toward the east, did any conquered ask to be mixed up?
 
Also all the so called mongoloid Ghengis Khan haplogroup  happens only in eastern Eurasia and China, but Mongol empire controlled 80% Eurasia, why is that ?
 
Lets check out central asian and western asians DNA: Sleepy
 
1-y-chromosome R1a:
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haplogroup R1a is the subclade of R with the highest frequencies. Haplogroup R is found in very high frequencies in Turk tribes and ancient Turk graves, for example it is found in Xiongnu Turk graves. Some of the very interesting results of R in Turks(and also Mongols and Tungusics) are: 95,0% in Bashkirs, 92,9% in Altaians, 82,5% in Khotons, 80,0% in Tuvinians, 78,4% in Shors, 44,0% in Turkiye, and a lot more of these high frequencies.
 
 
2-y-chromosome I
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As for haplogroup I, we must know the fact that many of the Balkan nations are of Turk origin, and have roots in Central Asia/Mongolia. Haplogroup I is found 53,7% in Bosniacs, 40,0% in Tatars, 31,6% in Gagauz's, and also in the study Keyser et. al. 2003(
http://turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=4533), 4/27 haplotypes match with haplogroup I, this is very important, as the Keyser et. al. 2003 studies is about ancient Xiongnu Turk graves in Mongolia. This is the reason for the map of I to begin from Mongolia, because if there is evidence of 2000 year old haplogroup I in Mongolia, then the origin should lie there.
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3-y-chromosome J:
 
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Lets begin with haplogroup J, let me proof you the Turk origin of haplogroup J.

Haplogroup J is found with 72,0%(1. Place Ranking) in Avar Turks in the study Yunusbaev et. al. 2006. In Azerbaijan Turks(in studies Zerjal et. al. 2002, Wells et. al. 2001, Giacomo et. al. 2004, Murci et. al. 2001, Nasidze et. al. 2004) Haplogroup J frequencies are: 57,9%(1. Place Ranking), 48,0%(1. Place Ranking), 39,1%, 34,0%(1. Place Ranking), 31,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Kumik Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 46,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Uzbek Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 34,7%(1. Place Ranking).
In Uygur Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 34,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Xiongu Hun Turk Graves there is also found one Haplogroup J. And a lot more data available at
http://www.turktoresi.com.

Haplogroup G ıs found with 86,7%(1. Place Ranking) in Kazak Turks(Bíró et. al. 2009). Even this is enough data. And i have already discussed Haplogroup I.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
Now the question is:

 
Where is the mongoloid Mongol admixture???
 
The mongoloid mongols are here:
 
Distribution of The supposed Ghengis Khan and mongol haplogroup C3.
 
 
 
From " The genetic legacy of the Mongols " The study was based on the premise that mongols were mongoloid. So we have that, most mongoloid mongols turned out to be east asians or western chinese hybrids. If we took mongol as mongoloids, mongoloid mongols left their genetic footprints only in East Asia. And turks, middle easterners, western asians are as pure as they can be. Also mind, whatever the mongol haplogroup is, there are more western admixture present within western China population.
 
The mongols, they were pale skinned caucasians from central asia, descendents of the tocharians. Dont forget, europid dominated central asia since 2000BC.
 
Summing up the genetic and historical facts, it is very clearly that mongols and huns were all caucasian, they descended from neolithic europids from Central Asia, like Andronovo and Afanasievo Cultures. The turks and mongols did come from Mongolia, but before that, they came from the west during the neolithic age and conquered Siberia and Mongolia since 500BC and assimilated a part of siberian native(now the mongolians). Just like Colonists came from the west, conquered natives, and then went back to the west again.  It is not that Mongolia was their homeland, but it was where they conquered. Their homeland was the west.
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 21-Jul-2011 at 21:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 14:59
I must say that OP is quite ignorant.

If you say that Mongols were Caucasian then YOUmust provide the prove.

Many Turkic tribes who lived in Central-Asia (Tatars for example) at first had conflicts but after they joined Genkhis Khan.

They were known for their horsemanship, did you ever tried to ride a horse in the mountains of the Caucasus at the same way as the Mongols did?
People living in the steppe is the most logical answer to this.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 06:41
Originally posted by khun

FYI

Mongolia marks many historic anniversaries this year. For instance, in connection with the 2220th Anniversary of the Founding of Mongolia's Statehood – "Hunnu Empire" (Southern Huns or Xianu Empire) – a Peace Festival of Nations of Hunnu Origin is going to be organised in Ulaanbaatar. Representatives of 33 countries have been invited to attend this great event.

 
Yes, I also celebrate Valentine, my friends celebrate Xmas.
 
I have already said, mongols gained resources and technology from China, and conquered Siberia and China before they went to the west.
 
Tell me about chariots and horses in Central Asia dating from 2000BC, tocharians in western China since 1800BC. Whatever, western china have been mixed up since 4000 years ago, and mongoloid mixtures happens in scandinavia where have only been invaded by russians and nazis.  What ever the Hunnu was, they are not far from being western caucasians.


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 12-Jul-2011 at 06:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 05:37
FYI

Mongolia marks many historic anniversaries this year. For instance, in connection with the 2220th Anniversary of the Founding of Mongolia's Statehood – "Hunnu Empire" (Southern Huns or Xianu Empire) – a Peace Festival of Nations of Hunnu Origin is going to be organised in Ulaanbaatar. Representatives of 33 countries have been invited to attend this great event.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 03:48
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

Medenaywe, you mostly write unintelligible posts, only sentence I can make out is where did the defeated live?
 
In Mongolia, where the mongols frist conquered.
 
In China, they conquered the whole China,
 
In western Eurasia, where the conquered and conquers live togather.

Excuse me, Wadjet Horus, do not insult people by saying they have "unintelligible posts". You must be polite and ask for points to be clarified.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 03:07
Medenaywe, you mostly write unintelligible posts, only sentence I can make out is where did the defeated live?
 
In Mongolia, where the mongols frist conquered.
 
In China, they conquered the whole China,
 
In western Eurasia, where the conquered and conquers live togather.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 02:29
There were people from Siberia,Persia,India and China.Those were basic DNA carriers in ancient time as you have told us above.After those invasions,what have left from them?Who did take habitat to(or left DNA?) whom?Where did defeated live now?It looks as vampire invasion or aliens attack(info missing?)to me,cause during small time period everything have changed as it is today!If similar things had not happened here I would have not believed it at all.All libraries about Pre Christ period had vanished all around the world in the same time?It could be aliens attack,more than obvious.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 22:19
Siberians are no nomadic steppe people, they are arctic, ice faring people. They live on deer herding, arctic fishing like eskimo, it is their true culture.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:57
All concerned.
 
Interesting and informative exchange here...
Keep it level... keep it civil.... keep it clean..... Wadjet strive real real hard to keep out anti-nationalistic and nationalistic bias or predilections past or present.
 
Re-read....http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&FID=68&PR=3 especially para six and the attached appendix.
 
If ya can't do this I will do it for you...trust me.
 
Now all carry on....and discuss it the way all are capable of.Thumbs Up


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 11-Jul-2011 at 21:00
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:55
By my theory  the apparent discepancy between chinese and mongol culture, and between siberian and mongol culture can be explained. Why the tame, split minor siberians could have been able to conquer 80% of Eurasia? No, they were never able to do so, just they were forced to do so.
 
Mongolians except for their western admixture, they are genetically SIBERIANS, AND PROVEN.
 
What made them one mongolian and another siberian? The Mongol Empire. Just search for siberian mongoloid people like evenkis, nenets, eskimos, chukchis, saamis, lapps, tell me when they invaded any country, created any empire, or if they are able to do any form of resistance against the weakest government. Those mongoloid tribes have been in northern siberian for 10000 years, not untill mongols came they were never considered as invaders,they are the lest criminal people on the surface of Earth, oneday they suddenly became invaders and now returned to their ancient character before. Can you believe this????
 
Or some foreign force intervene, forced them to assimilate, to join their army, to serve their course, which one is more credible?
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 21:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:18
Western colonialism does not bring cultures always, and current superior perception of western civilization is also hypocritical. If you get this straight you can see the truth easily. All western colonialism is characterised by martial conquest, massacres, raping. The economy was also found on resources robbed. In ancient times when caucasians are less cultured but it did not stop them from being colonists. It is all the same invasion, infiltration, massacres.
 
Mongol empire =/Mongolia, just like Indian reservation=/the United States or Brazil government.
 
Mongol empire was a kingdom ravaging the whole Eurasia for 400 years, Mongolia was just a small country with no population, resource, culture to enable any form of conquest. The fallacy of Mongolia being Mongol empire is obvious but people are tended to ignore it, I am sure many people have wondered? This question: Where the were the powerful mongols??? They just vanished?
 
No, they are in Russia, America, Turky, Europe, Western Asia, Middle East.  
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 20:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:11
Mongols came from today's Mongolia and all mongolians are mongoloid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
What if Mongolia was occupied by caucasians, and mongolians were raped siberians? Just like brazilian indians are mongoloid does not proved Brazil was found by the mongoloid indians.
 
Mongolians=/mongols, Mongol empire was founded by invading western caucasians, mongolians today are a remnant of siberians who were forced to assimilate.
 
Mongolian mongols were left in mongolia, while the caucasian mongols were ravaging across Eurasia, that is why there is very few caucasian traces left, they were assimilated into mongolian gene pool totally. The western admixtures within modern mongolians prove this. There are 5% R1a, R1b within mongolians, but there is no caucasian female mtdna found.
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 20:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 19:59
Huns were probably mixed or maybe even more caucasian, but no way mongols were caucasian. Mongols came from today's Mongolia and all mongolians are mongoloid
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 19:16

The Khitans were mongoloid. And they ranked higher than the Chinese in the Yuan dynasty. If the Mongols were westerners who hated Asians, wouldn't they have put the Khitans with the Chinese?
------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Khitans were not mongols, mongols rised after Khitans were defeated by the mongols. Khitans disliked the mongols and tried to drive them out of Siberia and China. And Khitans were a mixed group of koreans and caucasians since khitans were split into 2 class during mongols rule, one is semuren,another is 3rd class chinese, proving my point that caucasians dominated mongols.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 19:04
Everyone agrees that the people of the steppes and Siberia had mixed racial heritage. Western groups did come in and interbreed with the native Mongoloid populations. But that doesn't make the people of the steppe "white". It makes them mixed. I don't believe the native elements were wiped out or driven away. In fact I think they remained dominant.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
They were cearly not dominant since they do not have white female mtdna, but ychms admxiture.
Their language is also more related to persians, and their tribalistic cultures could not be in anyway dominant over the imperialistic westerners, it is simple truth.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wadjet is overestimating the effect western groups had because he wants the Mongols to be evil white men. He also seems to be under the impression that only white people are capable of widespread death and destruction. Tell that to the people of Nanking or Manchuria. Was the Imperial Japanese army also made up of white men? What about all the internal bloodshed that happened in China over the centuries? Was it all perpetrated by white spies? The Mongols didn't introduce violence to a peaceful land. They were just the best at being violent because they came from a harsh land.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Evil does not sudden sprang out of you, it is have been evil all along, from India to huns to mongols to colonialism. I have stated, mongol invasion is the MOST destructive dynasty chinese ever had, so many chinese scholars believe to more destrutive than japanese invasion.
 
Japan invasion was a nationalistic invasion, meant to drive out colonists, given a background of threatening west. There was a gang of bigger savages behind them, that is why. Mao thanked Japan for her invasion, if not for them China would have been split by russian, and american and other western colonists.
 
 
 
 
Dont tell me they are capable of invading this:
 
 
 
 
Where is the mongoloid mongol dna left in central asians?
 
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 19:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 16:55
Everyone agrees that the people of the steppes and Siberia had mixed racial heritage. Western groups did come in and interbreed with the native Mongoloid populations. But that doesn't make the people of the steppe "white". It makes them mixed. I don't believe the native elements were wiped out or driven away. In fact I think they remained dominant.

Wadjet is overestimating the effect western groups had because he wants the Mongols to be evil white men. He also seems to be under the impression that only white people are capable of widespread death and destruction. Tell that to the people of Nanking or Manchuria. Was the Imperial Japanese army also made up of white men? What about all the internal bloodshed that happened in China over the centuries? Was it all perpetrated by white spies? The Mongols didn't introduce violence to a peaceful land. They were just the best at being violent because they came from a harsh land.

White people are guilty of enough REAL atrocities in the world. You don't really need to start making up new ones or borrowing the atrocities of others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 16:08
But if he was right about Persian,influence than racial and ethnic conflicts were more than obvious.We have same situation on European soil.Rome and Byzantine,ruled the world on same way.Modern world conflicts on European&African territories in last two centuries were nothing less than ethnic cleanse and populism.
Agree with you,Uncle,that best story teller do not use insults&simple words,but facts!So,here you are Wadjet,i found your story interesting,just calm down!Regards.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 14:36
The Khitans were mongoloid. And they ranked higher than the Chinese in the Yuan dynasty. If the Mongols were westerners who hated Asians, wouldn't they have put the Khitans with the Chinese?

The caste system of the Mongols wasn't based on race. It was based on who they trusted the most and on seniority. The Han Chinese were the last to be conquered, so they ranked the lowest.  
 
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