home land of aryans?

Originally posted by archaiokapilos I think that the people who spread the Indo-European languages did not belong to only one haplogroup ( like R1a1 or R1b ) and their homeland was in the Balkans (because there are not any pre-Indo-European languages in the Balkans). From there one group moved North East and became the ancestors of Slavic and Indo-Aryan languages, an other group moved West (Celtic-Italic-Germanic) while a third group moved South-East ( Greek-Phrygian-Armenian). The Anatolian speakers have moved centuries earlier (that's why their language seems archaic) and setled in modern Turkey.

How do you know there were not any other languages before the IE in the Balkans? The writing system was invented by the Sumerians only 4th millennium BC. Before the Indo-Europeans arrived whole Europe was already populated by other peoples, like the Neolithic farmers and before them the Cro-Magnon. Cro-magnon population spoke a different language and I think that the Neolithic farmers spoke different languages too. And many other peoples before them.

Edited by MediaWarLord - 13-Jun-2011 at 17:11

Originally posted by balochii according to you from what you have studied about the aryans, where do you think there home land was??   personally i think it was located in southern central asia, north east iran, northern afghanistan, northern pakistan, Kashmir, and northern indian states very close to Himalayas(punjab, haryana,himachal)

That is where they settled but their point of origin is in the modern Russian steppes in the Caucasas mountain region along the black sea the birth place of all Indo-Europeans.

Sanskrit was originally spoken on the Caspian sea shores. The Sanskrit language itself has strong affinities with Slavic languages as well as Baltic languages. Balto-Slavic languages are very similar Indo-Aryan languages. The Iranic languages seem to be "odd man out" since they have lost gender distinction in many pronouns.

The language closest Sanskrit amongst Slavic languages is Slovenian because it evolved very slowly just as Lithuanian is the closest language to Proto-Indo-European due to lack of evolution.

Originally posted by balochii ^ this map seems a india centeric to me, in reality the highest R1a1 is found in northern pakistan (hunza, chitral, Gilgit) and kashmir and also parts of eastern afghanistan and Tajikistan.   In india, south of Punjab the rates of R1a1 drop significantlly!   I think Dardic people of northern south asia have the highest rates in the world

North Indians are mostly R2 also called R1b2 though I prefer to call it R2. Most R1A carriers in India probably came from Pakistan in olden days and during independence when both countries exchanged populations.

Most likely all the R1A on the Indian haplogroup map includes such people but also probably counts people from Indian occupied Kashmir as well.

That's the problem MediaLord, it's very difficult for any one to make this kind of separation between Indo-Aryan and Aryan. How do we know that Aryans didn't originate from the Caucasus and then split into both Indo-Aryans and Persians/Medes. Maybe it was the opposite, Indo-Aryans split up into Aryans both in the Caucasus and subsequently all of Europe...

You seem to be taking a quite offensive stance. I wasn't denying that Kurds are Aryans, on the contrary. I am just saying that we can't know for sure whether Aryans originated from that region and not another. Just because other groups might have Indo as a prefix doesn't discard the possibility of them being the origin, remember these are merely names that we later gave them (Indo-Aryan/Aryan/Indo-European).

Actually, I just found something online which might strengthen your opinion that Aryans originate from somewhere near Iran and not the northern shores of the Caspian or India. Some of you might know about a russian archaeologist named Victor Sarianidi who discovered an ancient bronze age civilization in what is nowadays Turkmenistan. The civilization was named the Oxus or BMCA (Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex) and there is good reason to think that it belongs to Indo-Iranian peoples according to Sarianidi.



The connection between the BMCA and early Indus valley civilization (Harappa) seems to have been quite strong with an already well-established trade. Many objects belonging to the BCMA have been found in the Indus valley. Even more interesting, many BCMA materials have also been found in Susa, Shahdad, and Tepe Yahya in Iran, thus strengthening the theory that they originated from Iran.

Why would we think that the BCMA migrated to the Indus valley and not the other way around? First of all, we all know that the language of the Harappa was the Sanskrit which is also the language of the Veda scriptures. Let's also not forget the connections between Sanskrit and Avestan Zoroastrian language. Apparently, in the Rigveda there is extensive mention of horses as an important part of the religion. Yet we know that the Harappans did not tame horses. The BCMA complex features many tombs containing sacrificed horses which shows that they must have had a religious importance to those people.




Another important aspect of the Vedic religion is drinking of Soma which is brewed from Ephedra which does not grow near the Indus valley. Again, according to Sarianidi the BCMA people used this drink in ritual ceremonies, though mixed with more interesting components such as cannabis and opium



The only problem with this theory is that there are no written texts to tell us more about the people who lived in the BCMA and as such we still have to ask ourselves where Sanskrit might have originated.



Edited by Baal Melqart - 14-Jun-2011 at 19:18

I think you are absolutely right. Still Indians feel themselves aryans.But it seems they are the mix blood of aryans and locals. One answer I wanted to know how Sanskrit the language came in to existence and all the Indian Brahmanism books and sacred books were written in Sanskrit and every where even in Vedas THE ARYANS are mentioned? Is there any connection between Indian Sadhus and aryans? Starting from ancient times to present. Real sadhus still live a rigorous life and even they stay a long time without taking foods.  

Originally posted by sanjoyma I think you are absolutely right. Still Indians feel themselves aryans.But it seems they are the mix blood of aryans and locals. One answer I wanted to know how Sanskrit the language came in to existence and all the Indian Brahmanism books and sacred books were written in Sanskrit and every where even in Vedas THE ARYANS are mentioned? Is there any connection between Indian Sadhus and aryans? Starting from ancient times to present. Real sadhus still live a rigorous life and even they stay a long time without taking foods.

Edited by balochii - 28-Jul-2011 at 12:51

If modern time-lines (chronology) are destroyed then one could well ask the question; "is there any connection between Indian Sadhus and 'Arians?'", or the faith called "Arianism?", or even "Catharism?"

I will let the Roman Catholic church explain;

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm

Just a Fomenko question. No insult intended.

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 28-Jul-2011 at 16:53