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Nationality vs. Religion
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nationality vs. Religion
    Posted: 02-Sep-2010 at 06:55
Look at these pics from the tomb of Cyrus the Great at Pasargadae:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
It is certainly good that Iranians respect our great king Cyrus the Great, but I don't know that I should be happy or sad when I see this way, it seems some people are really worshipping him, of course I know it can be just a reaction to our ultra-religious government's policy!
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2010 at 07:31
Difference between what is actual worship itself and what is perhaps just admiration and respect.
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2010 at 12:12
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It is certainly good that Iranians respect our great king Cyrus the Great, but I don't know that I should be happy or sad when I see this way, it seems some people are really worshipping him, of course I know it can be just a reaction to our ultra-religious government's policy!
I am surprised that the government has not stopped it.   Paying that much repsect to anybody besides a Shia religous saint would seem to arose the government's paranoia and lead to "warnings".
 
Is the tomb located in an ethnic minority area? Maybe the government is not taking action for this reason?  
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2010 at 13:49
Originally posted by Cryptic

I am surprised that the government has not stopped it.   Paying that much repsect to anybody besides a Shia religous saint would seem to arose the government's paranoia and lead to "warnings".


Its probably not that big of an issue for the government to care. i doubt these people number more than a couple hundred. The fact that they worship Cyrus is just as crazy as the Mullahs they are reacting too.
 
Originally posted by Cryptic


Is the tomb located in an ethnic minority area?


No.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2010 at 06:10
Of course Iranians prefer to worship their great ruler Cyrus- who create an empire over the half of the world based on order and justice, then to worship the Arab cameleer and pedophile who create doctrine of hatred, tyranny and oppression. While Mohammed talking about humility, but lived in luxury around concubines, Cyrus put this massage on his tomb, according ancient authors:
 
"Oh man, whosoever thou art and from whencesoever thou comest, for that thou wilt come I know, I am Cyrus, who founded the empire of the Persians. Grudge me not therefore, this little earth that covers my body."
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2010 at 07:52
What should happen after a war?
 
Cyrus the Great says:

"My numerous troops walked around in Babylon in peace, I did not allow anybody to terrorize any of the people of the country of Sumer and Akkad. I strove for peace in Babylon and in all other cities." (The Cyrus the Great Cylinder)
 
And the Prophet says:

"The punishment of those who who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, is: 'Execution, or Crucifixion, or the Cutting and Removing Off of hands and feet from OPPOSITE sides, or exile from the land.' That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter." (Quran: Al-Ma'idah: 5 - 33)
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2010 at 08:11
I don't see any harm in admiring Cyrus, all Iranians including Kurds admire him.  I think it would be better if more Iranians admired Cyrus the great and followed less of Islam and Mohammed.



Edited by Ince - 05-Sep-2010 at 08:12
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2010 at 09:23

I think all peoples should admire Cyrus, he has never mentioned to be an Iranian or a Persian and we don't know what his religion was, the main reason of wars and almost all other problems in the world has been always religious and nationalist bigotry, I don't think it is a sign of arrogance when he says "I am Cyrus, king of the world, the great king, the powerful king, ...", because we see other kings, especially later Persians kings, first mentioned their nationality, and I don't think it is a sign of egotism when he asks all gods who are worshipped in the world gives him a long life, because other ones usually asked this thing from their own gods.
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2010 at 09:31
I have noticed that the history of Iran is one of the inspirations for the current movement by young iranians to free iran, they are really intereted in their pre-islamic history and are motivated by it.

Legacy that Cyrus left was still impacting Iran years after he died, even to this day that inspires young iranians.
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2010 at 14:53
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

Of course Iranians prefer to worship their great ruler Cyrus- who create an empire over the half of the world based on order and justice, then to worship the Arab cameleer and pedophile who create doctrine of hatred, tyranny and oppression. While Mohammed talking about humility, but lived in luxury around concubines, Cyrus put this massage on his tomb, according ancient authors:
 
"Oh man, whosoever thou art and from whencesoever thou comest, for that thou wilt come I know, I am Cyrus, who founded the empire of the Persians. Grudge me not therefore, this little earth that covers my body."
 
can you prove Mohammad had conubines and lived in Luxury? stop making up stuff if you dont know any thing.
 
If you visit Makkah, you will see how Mohammad lived. even after becoming the leader of all of arabia, he only lived in a small house in Makkah, he hated luxury of all kinds. Quran is totally against luxury.
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2010 at 14:56
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

What should happen after a war?
 
Cyrus the Great says:

"My numerous troops walked around in Babylon in peace, I did not allow anybody to terrorize any of the people of the country of Sumer and Akkad. I strove for peace in Babylon and in all other cities." (The Cyrus the Great Cylinder)
 
And the Prophet says:

"The punishment of those who who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, is: 'Execution, or Crucifixion, or the Cutting and Removing Off of hands and feet from OPPOSITE sides, or exile from the land.' That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter." (Quran: Al-Ma'idah: 5 - 33)

 
This qoute is is misqouted, This is during a battle that was happening, this is not for innocent people. Infact when Muhammad and his army returned to Makkah even though the the Makkans were waging war on muslims and killed thousands of muslims, he forgave all the makkans of what they did.
 
This is comman knowledge guys, this is a history forum, you guys should know alteast some thing from islam before calling it a evil tyrant religion
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Posts: 1 		  Quote buroz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2010 at 18:26
well in cases your all right and in some cases your all wrong respect comes in most cases as kneeling or show as what your seeing in the pictures as a sign of rspect like people kiss the popes ring as a sign of reconition and respect in some cases to much respect can be wrong but in some cases to little is a way of disrespect can also cause war both ways which has happened from past actions
to die is to protect whats rightfully yours to live is but a shadow away
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 12:30
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think all peoples should admire Cyrus, he has never mentioned to be an Iranian or a Persian and we don't know what his religion was, the main reason of wars and almost all other problems in the world has been always religious and nationalist bigotry, I don't think it is a sign of arrogance when he says "I am Cyrus, king of the world, the great king, the powerful king, ...", because we see other kings, especially later Persians kings, first mentioned their nationality, and I don't think it is a sign of egotism when he asks all gods who are worshipped in the world gives him a long life, because other ones usually asked this thing from their own gods.

 
All the sources I find say Cyrus was Zoroastrian.  In fact this is most likely what age him as much power as he had.  Not because of supernatural powers, but because of people wanting to belief their leader has a special connention with God.   Zoroastrianism deifies Cyrus and those who followed.  This is a war God as the Hebrew war God.  There was a connection between these religions.  Just as people gladly worshipped their pharaohs , they also worshipped kings.  In the US people did not deify Bush, but the Christian Right did believe he was chosen by God and was doing the will of God.  This is what got Bush re elected, and it is what makes people follow warrior kings or pharaohs.  This is also why I insist the day can come when we full manifest democracy and stop following these leaders who use religion to lead us to war.  It is ignorace to believe those who lead us to war are doing the will of God. 
 
 
Democracy opposes the religious claim that anyone besides the individual is God's authority.  God doesn't give his authority to this person and not that person.  That just does not happen and never did.  Obviously our democracy was high jacked by Christians, and then the Military Industrial Complex also known as the New World Order.  But please note, democracy is not about nationalism.  Democracy is  not Godless but claims God gives his authority to everyone.  Democracy puts the responsibility of knowing God's truth, and our actions, on each one of us, and with our freedom comes a huge responsibility. 
 
The Statue of Liberty holds a book for literacy and a torch for enligtenment.  Only highly moral people can have liberty.  Therefore, liberty must defended with education for good moral judgment. 
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 13:30
I would never fell on knees in front of any king, life or dead. We have different tradition, in my country the king was only "primus inter pares" and everyone could have become a king, just like in the past everyone could have become a pope.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 14:00
Originally posted by Mosquito

I would never fell on knees in front of any king, life or dead. We have different tradition, in my country the king was only "primus inter pares" and everyone could have become a king, just like in the past everyone could have become a pope.
 
You probably would not do it today, but your ancestors have done it at the time.
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 14:54
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

Originally posted by Mosquito

I would never fell on knees in front of any king, life or dead. We have different tradition, in my country the king was only "primus inter pares" and everyone could have become a king, just like in the past everyone could have become a pope.
 
You probably would not do it today, but your ancestors have done it at the time.
 
lol Kanas_Krumesis, wrong call ;)
On this picture is Vasili IV tsar of Russia and his brother on knees in front of king Sigismundus III (pol. Zygmunt III).


Edited by Mosquito - 05-Dec-2010 at 15:20
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 15:38
Oops! Forgot to check his passport. Maybe this would be more authentic:
 
Henryk IV the Righteous (c. 1258 – 23 June 1290) Duke of Silesia


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 03-Dec-2010 at 16:13
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2010 at 15:19
I dont see the people kneeling here ;) Belive me, in Poland, especially after medieval times people did not fell on knees before their king... In opposite, often kings had to suffer from insults of their citisens.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2010 at 19:06
Earlier Cyrus wrote;

"What should happen after a war?

Cyrus the Great says:

"My numerous troops walked around in Babylon in peace, I did not allow anybody to terrorize any of the people of the country of Sumer and Akkad. I strove for peace in Babylon and in all other cities." (The Cyrus the Great Cylinder)

And the Prophet says:
"The punishment of those who who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, is: 'Execution, or Crucifixion, or the Cutting and Removing Off of hands and feet from OPPOSITE sides, or exile from the land.' That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter." (Quran: Al-Ma'idah: 5 - 33)"

I would ask all of you to compare the above words of the prophet (pbuh) as they compare to the incised visions of Rameses III at Medinet Habu, etc.?

Hands cut off at the wrist, were a most common sight here!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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