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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Topic: Iranian Culture Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 08:11 |
I was wondering why it was called Harem Pants . But why? was not worn in public? |
In the Qajar and previous dynasties, Iran had a religious society, women even covered their faces in public, of course they wore shalvar under their chadors too.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 08:54 |
@Cyrus Shahmiri
aren´t qajars of turkmen origin? And didn´t they ruled just in horasan or northwestiran? so how could this woman be Persian? |
Qajars had Turkic origin but the capital of Qajar dynasty (1794 – 1925) was Tehran, those women could be not Persian ethnically, because there were women of different ethnic origins in the Qajar harems but Persian men and women certainly wore shalvar too, in fact Shalvar (like legs) and Pajama/Pyjama (foot garment) are Persian words, Shal/Shel means "leg" in Persian, it has the same Indo-European origin of Greek word "Skelos", you probably know Triskelion (three legs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion
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Ince
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Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 09:17 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I was wondering why it was called Harem Pants . But why? was not worn in public? |
In the Qajar and previous dynasties, Iran had a religious society, women even covered their faces in public, of course they wore shalvar under their chadors too.
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That looks scary, never what see that person in a dark alley.
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Xorto
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Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 09:19 |
Originally posted by Ince
Why do Assyrians wear similar clothes to Kurds? It looks nearly identical to Kurds.
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because this guys you are calling assyrians are originaly chaldeans and they lived among kurds. they wear the typical shal u shapik and it isn´t of Assyrian origin because shal and shapik are iranic words.
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Ince
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Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 09:21 |
Originally posted by Xorto
My Grandmother wearing Shalvar
your Grandmother don´t differ from an Anatolian I realy don´t get it are you Kurd from South or North? ones you said you are kurd from north later you said you are rather from south.
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I asked my mother why nobody in my village wore tradational Kurdish clothes. She said they use to, my grandmother use to wear the Shalvar then she started wearing the one in the pic I had posted before. Also my grandfather use to wear the baggy pants and the belt but after started wearing what other Anatolians were wearing.
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Ince
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Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 22:15 |
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Ince
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Posted: 28-Aug-2010 at 22:19 |
Found some more on Scythians and Kurds
Scythians are known with and are shown on the ancient relics wearing pointy hats.
Kurds also have traditionally been known for their pointy hats.
Kurdish militia 1896
Kurds from Southern Caucasus (Armenia), 1840
Kurds 1840s
Kurds 1885
Kurdish warrior 1800s
Kurdish cavalryman, 17th century, showing a mounted cavalryman wielding a spear. From an unidentified 17th century German work
Representives of Kurdish costumes from six different geographical locations.
The list of images goes on, and give us a clear clue about Kurds traditional pointy hats.
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Xorto
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 04:21 |
Kurds= Meds-Scyths-Parthians-Phrygians with Hurrian-urataen-mannaen-Hethitian-amorrit,phönician admixture.
Scythian looking kurds from Turkey
colemerg (hakkari)
betlis
Scythian looking Kurd from Iraq(Duhok)
phrygian looking kurd from cewlik (Bingöl)
Medic looking Kurds from Kirmashan
and urmiya
Parthian looking Kurds
Hurrian looking kurd from Cizir
Urartian-Mannaen looking kurdish Girl
Hethitian looking Kurd
Levantine (amorrit-phönician) looking kurds from Iraq
Thats my oppinion
Culturell Medic-Scyth-Parthian-old Anatolian (PrhygianHurrian-Hethitian) with Persian (zoroastrianism), Arabic(Islam) and Levantine Influence.
Edited by Xorto - 09-Sep-2010 at 06:53
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 08:53 |
I don't know if we can base origin on Looks. As I have seen many different looking Kurds from my own City. My mother side looks what I would say Afghani/Iranic as they have light brown eyes and thin noses. Where as my fathers side, one side looks mongoloid as my Grandmother was Turkic and the other side of my father looks georgian. We don't know what the Hurrians and Medes even looked like. What group would you class Yilmaz Guney,Kirmizigul and Ahmet kaya in?
Edited by Ince - 09-Sep-2010 at 09:00
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 10:33 |
Xorto, that is an interesting imaginary post, for me the first two ones look very Azeri, the third one looks like s Slav and the forth one could be an Italian, but the next one certainly looks like a Kurd from Kermanshah, the one from Urmia is similar to a Gilaki, those Parthian ones look like people from Ardabil of Iran, ...
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 19:59 |
Persian looking Kurd? Kenan Coban
Edited by Ince - 09-Sep-2010 at 20:08
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Xorto
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 20:26 |
Originally posted by Ince
I don't know if we can base origin on Looks. As I have seen many different looking Kurds from my own City. My mother side looks what I would say Afghani/Iranic as they have light brown eyes and thin noses. Where as my fathers side, one side looks mongoloid as my Grandmother was Turkic and the other side of my father looks georgian.
We don't know what the Hurrians and Medes even looked like.
What group would you class Yilmaz Guney,Kirmizigul and Ahmet kaya in?
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Yilmaz Güney Anatolian looking kurd maybe hethit.
Mahsum Kirmizigül has a Medic look.
Ahmet Kaya has an Hethitan look more from Central Anatolia
Hurrians-Mannaens-Urartians-Georgians = Caucasian
of course you can also find some mongol looking kurds i don´t deny this. I also know a kurd from Mardin who looks 100% mongol but thats not the common look among kurds I have never seen a bigger group of kurds which look turkic. By the way even the Turkmens from Anatolia are less mongol mixed than Afghans and Turkmens from Central-Asia you can´t comper them to each.
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Xorto
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:03 |
Originally posted by Ince
Persian looking Kurd? Kenan Coban
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He is Medic looking. Just because this look is also very common among todays Iranians it doesen make it typical Old Persian. Don´t forget that a big part of Iran which is today Persian is former Medic and Parthian Land like Teheran, Gilan, Semnan, mazandaran, Golestan. Almost 50% of Persian look more typical Medianor parthian than Persian.And of course their is not such a big difference between old Persian and Medic look. The only Reason why i didn´t used Persian look is because we don´t have realy Old Persian ancestory. We are Northwest Iranic.
In my Opinion this are the typical Old Persian looks.
Medic looking Persians
Azeri Medic looking Persians
thats IMO
Edited by Xorto - 09-Sep-2010 at 21:59
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:05 |
Originally posted by Xorto
Originally posted by Ince
I don't know if we can base origin on Looks. As I have seen many different looking Kurds from my own City. My mother side looks what I would say Afghani/Iranic as they have light brown eyes and thin noses. Where as my fathers side, one side looks mongoloid as my Grandmother was Turkic and the other side of my father looks georgian.
We don't know what the Hurrians and Medes even looked like.
What group would you class Yilmaz Guney,Kirmizigul and Ahmet kaya in?
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Yilmaz Güney Anatolian looking kurd maybe hethit.
Mahsum Kirmizigül has a Medic look.
Ahmet Kaya has an Hethitan look more from Central Anatolia
Hurrians-Mannaens-Urartians-Georgians = Caucasian
of course you can also find some mongol looking kurds i don´t deny this. I also know a kurd from Mardin who looks 100% mongol but thats not the common look among kurds I have never seen a bigger group of kurds which look turkic. By the way even the Turkmens from Anatolia are less mongol mixed than Afghans and Turkmens from Central-Asia you can´t comper them to each. |
We cannot just label them based on looks you can find many Kurds who look like Kirmizigul and Guney in Malatya. Their also many Kurds who look Indic, like i mentioned before my mother side looks what I would say Afghani. My grandmother had really strong Mongoloid features that is present in my aunts and uncles and my father and even among the children. My brother looks very mongoloid with eyes and lips. Where I look more like Kirmizigul and Yilmaz Guney. Even tho my Grandmother was Turkic. My father saw himself as a Kurd and even my grandmother knew and spoke Kurmanji. I ask new people I meet at times what they think I look like and answer is mainly Italian and Iranian, where as Indians and Pakistans always say I look like them but whiter. I have lite dark circle around my eyes and shiny eye leeds similar to Kenan Coban.
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Xorto
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:14 |
Originally posted by Ince
We cannot just label them based on looks you can find many Kurds who look like Kirmizigul and Guney in Malatya.
Their also many Kurds who look Indic, like i mentioned before my mother side looks what I would say Afghani.
My grandmother had really strong Mongoloid features that is present in my aunts and uncles and my father and even among the children. My brother looks very mongoloid with eyes and lips. Where I look more like Kirmizigul and Yilmaz Guney. Even tho my Grandmother was Turkic. My father saw himself as a Kurd and even my grandmother knew and spoke Kurmanji.
I ask new people I meet at times what they think I look like and answer is mainly Italian and Iranian, where as Indians and Pakistans always say I look like them but whiter. I have lite dark circle around my eyes and shiny eye leeds similar to Kenan Coban.
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typical Iranian Look. I said their are some few kurds who look like mongols. Afghan look is not the same as Indic look you mix things up like you want i think i even know you i saw one time a kurd on youtube who tried to explain me that we Kurds have more Indic influnece like he has some indian complexes lol. Any i talk about the majority and if you try to tell me that there is a bigger kurdish community in middle east which looks indic than please show me a youtube video or something like that were i can see a bigger group of kurds(not only a big familly who are related to each other) who look Indic or Mongolic. I also know a Kurd from Mardin who is extremly nationalistic but looks 100 Mongol. Also it would be nice if you could show me your and your mothers grandmothers picture so i can understan what you mean with turkic.
If you look like Coban you don´t look untypical for kurds. Coban even has a mediterranian distinct look rather than indian.
Edited by Xorto - 09-Sep-2010 at 21:22
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:23 |
Originally posted by Xorto
typical Iranian Look. I said their are some few kurds who look like mongols. Afghan look is not the same as Indic look you mix things up like you want i think i even know you i saw one time a kurd on youtube who tried to explain me that we Kurds have more Indic influnece like he has some indian complexes lol. Any i talk about the majority and if you try to tell me that there is a bigger kurdish community in middle east which looks indic than please show me a youtube video or something like that were i can see a group of kurds who look like this. Also it would be nice if you could show me your and your mothers grandmothers picture so i can understan what you mean with turkic.
If you look like Coban you don´t look untypical for kurds. Coban even has a mediterranian distinct look rather than indian.
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Thats the thing only a few random Kurds look Indic, I would not say their was a village full or city that look indic. I have met relatives on my mother side who I would say looks indic, this is because their is a large Indian and Pakistani community here in London so I see many Indians day to day. Yes I did compare Afghani look to Indic as Nort Indians do like like Afghanis. Their is this Kurdish singer that comes on TV that is blind and I don't know her name and she looks very similar to my Indian neighbour. I do not have any photos of family members on my laptop to show any. When I say Turkic I mean the mongoloid central asian looking ones. Heres a random picture I found of Turkmen on the net and this what I would say my grandmother looked like very similar to this lady oddly even similar clothes.
Edited by Ince - 09-Sep-2010 at 21:26
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Xorto
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:36 |
Originally posted by Ince
Originally posted by Xorto
typical Iranian Look. I said their are some few kurds who look like mongols. Afghan look is not the same as Indic look you mix things up like you want i think i even know you i saw one time a kurd on youtube who tried to explain me that we Kurds have more Indic influnece like he has some indian complexes lol. Any i talk about the majority and if you try to tell me that there is a bigger kurdish community in middle east which looks indic than please show me a youtube video or something like that were i can see a group of kurds who look like this. Also it would be nice if you could show me your and your mothers grandmothers picture so i can understan what you mean with turkic.
If you look like Coban you don´t look untypical for kurds. Coban even has a mediterranian distinct look rather than indian.
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Thats the thing only a few random Kurds look Indic, I would not say their was a village full or city that look indic. I have met relatives on my mother side who I would say looks indic, this is because their is a large Indian and Pakistani community here in London so I see many Indians day to day. Yes I did compare Afghani look to Indic as Nort Indians do like like Afghanis.
Their is this Kurdish singer that comes on TV that is blind and I don't know her name and she looks very similar to my Indian neighbour.
I do not have any photos of family members on my laptop to show any. When I say Turkic I mean the mongoloid central asian looking ones.
Heres a random picture I found of Turkmen on the net and this what I would say my grandmother looked like very similar to this lady oddly even similar clothes.
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I know which singer you mean but she doesen´t look anything near indian. You just get this feeling because you know many Indians and have contact to them and so you get the feeling of indians looking closer to you than they realy are. The simmiliaritys you find among kurds with indians are the same simmilaritys you can also find with other middle eastern people to them. Thats nothing special their is no clear border. Their are even Italians who look rather Indic but aren´t. look at this italian actress doesen´t he looks indic influenced?
The woman on the picture looks turkic. But thats not so important a nationality is not made up only by race but cultur and feeling
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:37 |
I also grandmother is not from Malatya originaly I don't know which city she came from, all I know is her and my grandfather met outside malatya.
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:41 |
Originally posted by Xorto
Originally posted by Ince
Originally posted by Xorto
typical Iranian Look. I said their are some few kurds who look like mongols. Afghan look is not the same as Indic look you mix things up like you want i think i even know you i saw one time a kurd on youtube who tried to explain me that we Kurds have more Indic influnece like he has some indian complexes lol. Any i talk about the majority and if you try to tell me that there is a bigger kurdish community in middle east which looks indic than please show me a youtube video or something like that were i can see a group of kurds who look like this. Also it would be nice if you could show me your and your mothers grandmothers picture so i can understan what you mean with turkic.
If you look like Coban you don´t look untypical for kurds. Coban even has a mediterranian distinct look rather than indian.
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Thats the thing only a few random Kurds look Indic, I would not say their was a village full or city that look indic. I have met relatives on my mother side who I would say looks indic, this is because their is a large Indian and Pakistani community here in London so I see many Indians day to day. Yes I did compare Afghani look to Indic as Nort Indians do like like Afghanis.
Their is this Kurdish singer that comes on TV that is blind and I don't know her name and she looks very similar to my Indian neighbour.
I do not have any photos of family members on my laptop to show any. When I say Turkic I mean the mongoloid central asian looking ones.
Heres a random picture I found of Turkmen on the net and this what I would say my grandmother looked like very similar to this lady oddly even similar clothes.
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I know which singer you mean but she doesen´t look anything near indian. You just get this feeling because you know many Indians and have contact to them and so you get the feeling of indians looking closer to you than they realy are. The simmiliaritys you find among kurds with indians are the same simmilaritys you can also find with other middle eastern people to them. Thats nothing special their is no clear border. Their are even Italians who look rather Indic but aren´t. look at this italian actress doesen´t he looks indic influenced?
The woman on the picture looks turkic. But thats not so important a nationality is not made up only by race but cultur and feeling |
That picture does what I would say looks indic. Then again india it self is a very mixed nation with different backgrounds.
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Ince
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Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 21:46 |
I was blonde untill the age of seven and my hair started geting darker, now it is doubled layerd with dark brown and lite brown and I still have a few blonde and red hair around my eyes brows and chin.
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