When did Kurds and Persians first names use ?

http://www.bible-history.com/faussets/M/Medes/

Originally posted by MediaWarLord "The Six Median Tribes Herodotus lists the names of six Mede tribes or castes. Some of these are similar to tribal names of the Scythians, suggesting a definitive link between these two groups. The Busae group is thought to derive from the Persian term buza meaning indigenous (i.e. not Iranian). Whether this was based on an originally Iranian term, or their own name, is unknown. The second group is called the Paraetaceni, or Parae-tak-(eni) in Persian, and denotes nomadic inhabitants of the mountains of Paraetacene. This name recalls the Scythian Para-la-ti, the people of Kolaxis, believed to represent the common people in general, but whom Herodotus calls the "Royal Scythians". The third group is called Stru­khat. The fourth group is the Arizanti, whose name is derived from the words Arya (noble), and Zantu (tribe, clan). The fifth group were the Budii, found also among the Black Sea Scythians as Budi-ni. Buddha was of the tribe Budha, the Saka (eastern Scythian) form of the name. The sixth tribe were the Magi...They were a hereditary caste of priests of the Zurvanism religion that evolved out of Zoroastrianism. The name Magi implies a link with the Sumerians, who called their language Emegir, over time becoming simplified to Magi. Hungarian tradition also traces pre-European Magyar (Hungarian) ancestry back to the Magi. In time, the Sumerian-influenced religion of the Magi was suppressed in favour of a more purely Iranian form of Zoroastrianism, itself evolved from its somewhat dualist beginnings into the monotheistic faith that it is today (also known as Parsi-ism). Herodotus also mentions that "the Medes had exactly the same equipment as the Persians; and indeed the dress common to both is not so much Persian as Median." http://www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/medes.html

I Thank you very much for this. And this exactly shows what I told you.  This sentence here is total Bullshit and shows us that this source has also his problems. Zoroastrianism developed  later from Mithraism. And also your source exactly shows what I tried to explain you pees since the beginning. Didn´t I told you that Maci or Magi means Magican and was just used for Priest cause they knew how to use Fire and thats why the Greeks and other called them Magican. This was just a Priest Cast and not a Tribe. Also your source says exactly that what I said. Six Tribes among the Median conferderation two of them were SCYTHIAN. Means almost 1/3 of the hole Conferderation was Scythian and it seems the Scyths also made up the biggest Iranic part of Media. What tells us this? The Iranic language of Media was most probably Scythian. Also your source says there was a group called Busae who were noN iranic. Most probably the Caucasian tribes I used to talk about when I said Meds are a mixture of Iranic and Caucasian tribes. most Probably Hurrians-Mannaens-Urartaens. The Buddi for example have funnily a similar name like the Boti or Buti living throw out Kurdistan also the Region Botan is called after them. Your source tells us that what I am saying and told you heredotus mentioned that many of the Median tribes were Scythians. And this Scythians and Caucasian tribes  were most probably our ancestors. 

"The sixth tribe were the Magi...They were a hereditary caste of priests of the Zurvanism religion that evolved out of Zoroastrianism"

"A horde of the nomad Scythians at feud with the rest withdrew and sought refuge in the land of the Medes: and at this time the ruler of the Medes was Cyaxares the son of Phraortes, the son of Deïokes, who at first dealt well with these Scythians, being suppliants for his protection; and esteeming them very highly he delivered boys to them to learn their speech and the art of shooting with the bow. Then time went by, and the Scythians used to go out continually to the chase and always brought back something; till once it happened that they took nothing, and when they returned with empty hands Cyaxares (being, as he showed on this occasion, not of an eminently good disposition) dealt with them very harshly and used insult towards them. And they, when they had received this treatment from Cyaxares, considering that they had suffered indignity, planned to kill and to cut up one of the boys who were being instructed among them, and having dressed his flesh as they had been wont to dress the wild animals, to bear it to Cyaxares and give it to him, pretending that it was game taken in hunting; and when they had given it, their design was to make their way as quickly as possible to Alyattes the son of Sadyattes at Sardis. This then was done; and Cyaxares with the guests who ate at his table tasted of that meat, and the Scythians having so done became suppliants for the protection of Alyattes. ..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyaxares

Edited by MediaWarLord - 05-Dec-2010 at 20:41

Originally posted by MediaWarLord I don't know if wikipedia is credible about this, but according wikipedia the Medes were invaded by the Scythians and before that the original Medes lived in central Zagros mountains (East Kurdistan).   "It is being increasingly argued that such a political entity even if existed, must have been merely a political alliance among highland neighbors of Assyrians, such as Armenia in southeastern Anatolia, Sagartians in Kurdistan, and the actual Medians in the area between what is today Hamadan-Kirmanshah in cental Zagros. Neither cuneiform sources nor archaeological evidence nor biblical accounts support the historiography provided by Herodotus, who claimed there existed a Median empire."   "According to Herodotus, the conquests of Cyaxares the Medes were preceded by a Scythian invasion and domination lasting twenty-eight years (under Madius the Scythian, 653-625 BC). The Medes tribes seem to have come into immediate conflict with a settled state to the West known as Mannae, allied with Assyria. Assyrian inscriptions state that the early Medes rulers, who had attempted rebellions against the Assyrians in the time of Esarhaddon and Ashur-bani-pal, were allied with chieftains of the Ashguza (Scythians) and other tribes — who had come from the northern shore of the Black Sea and invaded Asia Minor. The state of Mannae was finally conquered and assimilated by the Medes in the year 616 BC."   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

Are you ok? How do this Source explain us that the Medians were a different tribe when your first source of Heredotus says that the Medes were of 6 different Tribes with two of them beeing Scythian? What is going on in your head? You show me a Source which says 100% surely Two different Scythian tribes were among the Medes and now you came up with things like the Medians are a different tribe? Do you need some help? you post one source after another every of your sources says something else or even refute you and still you come with crap like the Medes were a seperate tribe? No man I am sure you are a Person who is already registrated here. That the Medes fought against Scythian Nomads who came across the Caucasus doesen´t tell us that they weren´t also Scythians as well. This is Like you tell me when two brother fight that they actually aren´t realy Brothers. Sorry man you definitly have some sort of understanding Problems. You have 0 skills to draw conclusions and Iam tired of your  Sources which almost everytime show that I am Right and you are to blind to Understand about. First you should Understand your sources well before Posting some. Even linguists say Kurdish langauges no matter if Zazaki Kurmanci Sorani or Gorani all four show more connection to Scythian than  to some other Iranic languages.

Lets compare Kurdish clothes to some other people

Kurdish






Khorasan Kurds


Serbian



Ukrain


Albanian




Edited by Ince - 06-Dec-2010 at 13:45

Zoroastrians

@ Ince with his  comparings again.  Let me ask you something. Are you denying the impact of Caucasian tribes like Hurrians on Kurds you ultra Aryanist? And why are you only showing kurdish clothes which look close to Indoeuropean ones but not the one which actually look similar to Caucasian ones?  

Here a comparing from me for you.

Irish "Indoeuropean Folkdance" and Caucasian Lezginka 

Did I now proved you that Irish People are actually Caucasian?

Originally posted by Xorto @ Ince with his  comparings again.  Let me ask you something. Are you denying the impact of Caucasian tribes like Hurrians on Kurds you ultra Aryanist? And why are you only showing kurdish clothes which look close to Indoeuropean ones but not the one which actually look similar to Caucasian ones?   Here a comparing from me for you. Irish "Indoeuropean Folkdance" and Caucasian Lezginka  Did I now proved you that Irish People are actually Caucasian?

My point is simply is Kurds have nothing really in common with Caucasian people.  Do they have Hurrian ancestory, yes.  But is as dominant as the Indo-European one No.  Izady was claiming the Hurrian part was more dominant.  Also please show me where Kurdish clothes resemble Caucasians?, and not Armenians, they are Indo-Europeans.  Please also not a small pocket of kurds who only range in the few thousand and could possibly be Kurdified Caucasians.   I showed those images of Kurds, because that was what I found on search and they are the most widely worn Kurdish clothes.

Irish dance might be a litle similar but no way the same and they don't even wear the same clothes .  Please don't even compare.  The closest people to georgian culture is Azerbaijan.

No I am not a Ultra-Aryanist.  I just do not see Kurds having anything in common with caucasians, but they do with Eastern Europeans.

Azeri dance

Similar dance and near identical clothes.  Azeris were Caucasians before the Turkification.




Edited by Ince - 07-Dec-2010 at 07:04

Regarding the term Kurd and possible Sycthian origin? just a thought.  Could be related to the Scythian word Skudra? .  The Corduene, who were believe to have been Sycthians and were known under these names Corduene, Cordyene, Cardyene, Carduene, Gordyene, Gordyaea, Korduene, Korchayk, Gordian

In Darius inscriptions, their is a mention of the Kudraha, some say it refers to the Kurds and sounds similar to Skudra.



Edited by Ince - 10-Dec-2010 at 22:35

Originally posted by Xorto @Ince and Medianwarlord Iam sorry that I attacked you a bit personally I was on my bad day :D In fact Ince there are Caucasian traditions among Kurds were I am from Example they play Laz-Pontus type Kemence and Dance to it.

No problem,  I did not even see it as an attack.

Their might be some similarties to do been neighbours and cultural exchange.  But in whole still not much similarties.