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kalhur View Drop Down
Earl
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Posts: 263 		  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kurds are German?
    Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 08:19
mais voila : the truthWink written on an european website!Smile
We did not come from Africa like modern science suggests. But all The nazis The nazis have stressed this, and so have many historians. Not all humans came from the same breeding grounds. We did not come from Africa like modern science suggests. But all the white people today are descendendants from the Atlanteans. AndAtlantis was the fatherland for all aryans as we know it. Atlantis was not in the mediterranean, it was in the Atlantic like plato and many others have described. It was probably off the southern coast of Iceland or somewhere in that relative area. Think about it, the Atlanteans were said to have blonde hair blue eyes and light skin, and us surviving whites today are their ancestors, from Nordics (germans, Danish people, Sweedish people, etc) to Caucasians (Italians, Spanards, etc) And all of our european languages that everyone speaks all have common roots to the Atlantean langauage (even the disney movie says this)LOL
i believe in WALT DISNEYBig smile
we kurds are not from atlantisGeek we are from ZAGROS mountainOuch
now we all knowing that white aryan has nothing to do with those morcky guys  like us from asiaWink
it is my theori why the persian and swedish language are so similar:
the similarity between swedish and persian language is very easy to explain:
at the time when atlantis was submerging in the sea, there were a few ilegal iranian cod-fishing boats   sailing  and fishing ilegally as those guys usually do Big smilearound that island(atlantis) and they managed to rescue those first  atlantis ARYANS and the first white aryan were forced to live on board those persian smuggler's  boats in mounth or years  waiting for visum to denmark and sweden(THE FIRST ARYAN BOAT REFUGIESWink) and they did learn to speak a kind of language which is very near to persianLOL
SIRES
any objections? to my briliant theori about languages??


Edited by kalhur - 25-Apr-2010 at 15:26
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Originally posted by Sharrukin

Any linguistic comparisons should be viewed in terms of a general Indo-European background.  Just bare in mind that if one does make comparisons between Germanic and Kurdish (and other Indo-Iranian) languages the same must also apply to other IE languages, (i.e. Romance, Celtic, etc.).  If this is ignored, then, either "All Europeans are Kurds/Iranians" or "All Kurds/Iranians are Europeans" or something to that effect.

I don't agree, you should prove all Indo-Europeans call their god "Goda/Khoda" and their king "Kianig", as Kurdish and Germanic people do, I don't know why we should ignore a huge similarity just because a general Indo-European background!
Romance, Celtic and other Indo-European people never celebrated Yuletide/Yalda, in their language shire/shar didn't mean "county" and they didn't use it as a suffix for their counties/cities, those who have researched about Germanic and Iranain mythical beliefs, have found several similar or almost the same things, like "Great Winter" (Fimbulvetr), which can not be found in other Indo-European mythical beliefs.

There are alternative etymologies for these words, Cyrus, (for instance, yuletide comes from yule and -tide - yule being an old Germanic feast called jol "jolly" and -tide from tid meaning "time") but yes, there probably were certain things that link Germanics with Iranics.  As we know, Germanic tribes were at one time neighbors to Iranic ones (i.e. Sarmatians).  Some of these concepts may even have been transmitted to the Germanics by Zoroastrian-believing nomadic tribes, since the Avesta does state that Zoroaster's doctrine was preached among these tribes.  It then comes to reason that cultural exchange occurred.  This does not mean that the one people came from the other, or visa versa.  This is the simplest solution, but now we are off-topic.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 12:41

I think the problem is about the Iranian origin, it is said Kurds, Persians, Gilakis, ... are Iranian-speaking people, how can we define an Iranian language? For example we know there was no "L" sound in the Old Persian and Avestan languages but there are thousands words in the Middle/Modern Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages with this sound, what are the origins of these words?

Linguists talk about Centum and Satem langauges, and some sound changes, like C(K)->S & L->R, there are some Kurdish members here, I want to ask them what the Kurdish word for "head" is? That is "Kelle" or "Ser"? Our Persian members certainly know what "Kulah" means in Persian, similar to Kurdish Kelle, there are Persian Kalle, Gilaki Kalla, ...
 
Proto-Germanic: *kulla-z, *kull=

Meaning: head, head-like object

Old Norse: koll-r m. `runder Gipfel; Kopf, Schädel'

Old English: { coll `heuvel, hoogte' }

Middle Dutch: col, colle; (Kiliaen) kolle-bloeme `anemoon'

Dutch: kol m. `wite vlek op het voorhoofd', dial. `voorhofd'

Middle Low German: kol, kolle `Kopf, oberster Teil von Pflanzen'
 
And
 
Slavic: *golva
 
Baltic: *galva
 
Hittite: harsar

Tokharian: krāñi 'nape of the neck' (Adams 214)

Old Indian: śíraḥ n. (nom., acc. ) `head, skull', gen. śīrṣṇáḥ, abl. śīrṣatáḥ; śīrṣá- n. `head, upper part'

Avestan: sarah- n. 'Kopf'

Armenian: sar `Höhe, Gipfel, Abhang'

Old Greek: kárǟ n.

Latin: cerebrum, -ī `Gehirn', cervīx, -īcis f. `Nacken, Genick'

Celtic: Bret kern `Scheitel, Wirbel des Kopfes'
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kalhur View Drop Down
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Posts: 263 		  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 14:57
Cyrus
the amount of simmilar words in persian and scandinavian language is so much and it is not limited in those few words above. many basic words  like body parts,housing, animals both domestical and savage are nearly the same,
but if the great WALT DISNEY said that germans are originating from ATLANTIS, then we should accept it.

 as a Body parts

 

Persian                             swedish                                        english

Lab                                   lep                                                lip

Bosse                                pusa                                              kiss

Abroo                                ogonbrun                                    eyebrow

Kale                                   skalle                                            skull

Dandan                               tand                                              dent

Chane                                  hache                                          chin

Naf                                      navel                                             belly button

 

Objects

 Dar                                     dor                                                  door

Hasar                                   hus                                                 house

Tagh                                    tak                                                    roof

Gaw                                     ko                                                     cow

Band (nakh)                      band(rep)                                                

Goraz                                gris                                                    porc boar

Ghaz                                  gås                                                    goose

 Nam                                 namn                                                 name

Mard(mand)                      man                                                    man 

Bradar                               bror                                                    brother

Dokhtar                             dotter                                                 daughter

Pedar                                 fader                                                   father

Madar                                moder                                                 mother

Astar (asb)                         häst                                                     horse

Stabl                                   stall                                                     stable

Famil                                  familj                                                  family

Rah                                      väg                                                     road

Rast                                      rätt                                                     right

Mah (mang)                              mån                                                   moon

Setare                                   stjärna                                                star

Div                                       djävul                                                devel

Behatr                                  bättre                                                 better

Tandar(raad)                       åska(dunder)                                      thunder

Pari                                      älv                                                     fairy

Robah(rewi=kurdish)             räv                                                      fox

gorg(werg =kurdish)               varg                                                     wolf 

Bordan                               bära                                                    bearing

Mess(metal)                     messing(copper alloy)                           copper

Ahen                                järn                                                       iron

Moosh                             mus                                                       mouse

Mian                               mellan                                                   between

Mor(morche)                  myra                                                      ant

Gerd(jerd)  (settelement)    gård                                                       yard

borj                                          borg

and more and more



 

 

 

 

 

                                               



Edited by kalhur - 25-Apr-2010 at 18:45
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Ince View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think the problem is about the Iranian origin, it is said Kurds, Persians, Gilakis, ... are Iranian-speaking people, how can we define an Iranian language? For example we know there was no "L" sound in the Old Persian and Avestan languages but there are thousands words in the Middle/Modern Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages with this sound, what are the origins of these words?

Linguists talk about Centum and Satem langauges, and some sound changes, like C(K)->S & L->R, there are some Kurdish members here, I want to ask them what the Kurdish word for "head" is? That is "Kelle" or "Ser"? Our Persian members certainly know what "Kulah" means in Persian, similar to Kurdish Kelle, there are Persian Kalle, Gilaki Kalla, ...
 
Proto-Germanic: *kulla-z, *kull=

Meaning: head, head-like object

Old Norse: koll-r m. `runder Gipfel; Kopf, Schädel'

Old English: { coll `heuvel, hoogte' }

Middle Dutch: col, colle; (Kiliaen) kolle-bloeme `anemoon'

Dutch: kol m. `wite vlek op het voorhoofd', dial. `voorhofd'

Middle Low German: kol, kolle `Kopf, oberster Teil von Pflanzen'
 
And
 
Slavic: *golva
 
Baltic: *galva
 
Hittite: harsar

Tokharian: krāñi 'nape of the neck' (Adams 214)

Old Indian: śíraḥ n. (nom., acc. ) `head, skull', gen. śīrṣṇáḥ, abl. śīrṣatáḥ; śīrṣá- n. `head, upper part'

Avestan: sarah- n. 'Kopf'

Armenian: sar `Höhe, Gipfel, Abhang'

Old Greek: kárǟ n.

Latin: cerebrum, -ī `Gehirn', cervīx, -īcis f. `Nacken, Genick'

Celtic: Bret kern `Scheitel, Wirbel des Kopfes'


In all Kurdish dialects "Head" is "Ser"

Heres some more words, that you might be interested in.  Notice how close Kurmanci is to Persian, even tho it is classed as NW dialect.  Some people classify it as SW, but others say it is just about NW and nearly in between, SW and NW.   Also Zaza seems to be close to Avestan.

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
*wvvb / gb / g
-
*weh1-nt-vātā-vābādbā
wind
*awer-vār-vārānbārānbārān
rain
*wekʷ-vāčvācāvāzbēj
sing, say
*weg'hvazaitivāz-bez-bez-
run
*wek-vāčvangbangbang, dang
voice
*wadh-vadveyvbayobuk
bride, wedding
*weren--varekbarrebarx
sheep
*w̯epvefr-vawr, vorbarfbefr
snow
*wen-veēn-vēn, vīnbīn-bīn-
see
*wīk'm̥tīvīsaitīvīstbistbist
twenty
*widhewovīthavavīyābīvebī
widow
*wei-vaeitiviyālbidbi
willow
*wes-vāstravāšgiyāhgiyā
grass
*wrdho-vard-vilgulgul
rose
*wl̥kʷo-vēhrke-varggorggurg
wolf

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiKurdish (Kurmanci)Persian
English
*k/*gz/sz/sz/sd/h
-
*k'erd-zerdeye-zerridildil
heart
*g'hol-zaranya-zerdzêrzar
gold
*g'no-zan-zan-zan-dān-
know
*g'emezamat-zamazavadāmād
groom
*eg'omezēmezez (min)ed- (man)
I
*bhrg'hberezantberzbilindboland
borough, high
*dek'm̥dasadesdehdah
ten

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
*gw / *kwj / čĵzž
-
*gwen-jainišĵenizanžın
woman
*gwhen-janĵin-zan-žen-
playing music, to beat
*gwiwo-jivĵiwiyayıšzīstanžıyan
live
*gwiwo-jivĵindezendezındi (loan)
alive
*sekw-uperhača-upairiĵorzabar- (bala)žor
up
*sekw-ndhero-hača-atharaĵêrzīržêr
down
*sekw-hača-ĵiaz/zeži
from
*leuk-reočah -roĵrūzrož
day
*wekw-vač-vaĵāvāzbêž
say, sing
*pekw-pač-pewĵ-paz-pêž
cook

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
ddbdd
-
*dhwer-dvaraberdarderi
door

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
trθrhrss
-
*trejesθrihrisese (loan)[10]
three
*trikomtθrisaitihrissisi (loan)[10]
thirty

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
*rg,*lg / *rdrz / rdrz / rrll
-
*bhrg'hberezantberzbolandbilind
borough, high
-herez-erzhil-hel
sprinkle, throw
--wurzlizalez
dash off, stand up, fly
*spleg'h-spērēzanserpezseporzsıpıl
spleen
-sered-, yareserresālsal
year
*k'erd-zerd-zerredildil
heart
*wrdho-verd-vılgulgul
rose

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
*swxvwx(u)x(w)
-
*swep-xvefne-witišxwābxew
sleep
-xveš-wešxošxweš
sweet
*swenh-xven-wend-xānd-xwend-
read
*swesorxveherwaxāharxweh
sister
-xver-werd-xord-xward-
swallow, eat

Indo-EuropeanAvestanZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
*mmmmv
-
*h1nomn̥namanamenāmnav
name
*sem-hama-āmnān(hāmīn)hāvīn
summer
*samos-hama-embazhambazheval
same

ZazakiPersianKurdish (Kurmanci)
English
wtftt/wt/ft
-
hewthaftḥewt/heft
seven
kewtkaftket/kewt/keft
get in



Edited by Ince - 25-Apr-2010 at 15:37
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Posts: 263 		  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 16:07
another problem is the presence of great amount of people with both blondhair and blue or green eyes almost here and there  mostley in very remote and isolated areas both in iran and kurdestan too,
how did they landed thereShocked if only germans are aryan and white  with blond hair and blue eyes !!and comming from  ATLANTISWink
then how in the heaven these guys landed in zagros mountainsQuestion
maybe there was an rescue operation by airBig smile at the time of catastrophy in atlantis and those guys were brought here by LUFT HANSA  OR iranairLOL


Edited by kalhur - 25-Apr-2010 at 16:08
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Originally posted by opuslola

Both of you have good points! But, rather than using the term "German" would it not be more correct to use the term "Goth?" Certainly the origin of the so called "gothic" tribes both the Eastern and Western varieties offer enough leeway to consider that they at one time entered all of the areas you guys could consider!
If there was common ancestry , I think we should be looking at Scytho-Cymmerian. Germans came from Goths, and Goths came from Scytho-Cymmerians. Kurds came off Medeans, and Medeans sprang from Scytho-Cymmerians who united under Madya (Madius).
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Originally posted by kalhur

sultan mahmmod ghaznavi  son of spuk-tekin was proud of
his iranian origin , despite he was turk. he proclaimed himself off spring of YAZDGERD the last sasanid king and loved the dari(farsi) language tooBig smile as i said before the turks were so mixed with iranians that for 1000 years ago their king called himslef iranian not turanianBig smile 
How was Mahmud al-Ghaznavi linked to Yazdegerd? His mother or grandmother was a Samanid princess, I read, but does anyone have his detailed lineage from Yazdegerd?
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 18:58
So, just where do the "Gothic" words fit within the above lists?

Certainly enough Gothic exists to also list their words for the above?
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Sebüktigin, aged twelve years, was taken prisoner by a neighbouring warring tribe and sold as a slave to a merchant named Nasr the Haji. He was purchased by Alptigin, the Lord Chamberlain of the Samani ruler of Khurasan. However, when Alptigin later rebelled against the Saminid influence, capturing Zabulistan and Ghazni, he raised Sebüktigin to the position of General and married his daughter to him. He served Alptigin, and his two successors Ishaq and Balkatigin. He later succeeded another slave of Alptagin to the throne, and in 977 became the popular ruler of Ghazni.

Sebüktigin enlarged upon Alptigin's conquests, extending his domain north to Balkh, west to Kandahar including most of Khorasan, and east to the Indus River.

Sebüktigin was recognized by the Caliph in Baghdad as governor of his dominions. He died in 997, and was succeeded by his younger son Sultan Ismail of Ghazni. Mahmud rebelled against his younger brother, Sultan Ismail of Ghazni, and took over Ghazni as the new Sultan.

Ferishta records Sebük Tigin's genealogy as descended from the Sassanid Emperors: "Subooktu-geen, the son of Jookan, the son of Kuzil-Hukum, the son of Kuzil-Arslan, the son of Ferooz, the son of Yezdijird, king of Persia." Some doubt has been cast on this due the lineage been reckoned too short to account for the 320 intervening years.[citation needed] What is known about Sebük Tigin is that he was of Turkic origin,[1] born in Barskhan and bought by Alptigin as a boy in Bokhara. According to Grousset,

The Turkic mercenary army which Alptigin had raised in Ghazni, and which was already profoundly influenced by Islam, was from 977 onward led by another Turkic ex-slave -another Mameluke- named Sebüktigin, who made himself master of Tokharistan (Balkh-Kunduz) and Kandahar, and embarked upon the conquest of Kabul.
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dear opsolola
i can not speak gothic and i don't know how modern swedish  language is related to the old gothic, because the dominant tribe which had the power was not Göta it was SVEA and sweden is called  SVERIGE(country of svea) i know little about their origin, but it seems the swedish language is nearest to persian than any other european language on ancient words and verbes too. why i can't explain . i do speak french too . but latin languages are much less related to persianShocked


greftan             gripa               to grip
bordan             bära                bearing
and many verb has been the same but altered by using a  G or H in the begining which make them sound different, but are indeed the same only a G or H is added to the  begining of the verb.


Edited by kalhur - 26-Apr-2010 at 03:42
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Originally posted by kalhur

Dokhtar                             dotter                                                 daughter
I believe 'dokhtar' is also sometimes abbreviated to 'dokht', isn't it?
 
There was a princess of Yazdegerd, I believe from his second or third queen, named 'Mehrandokht'. the word 'Mehr', I understand, meant 'Light' in Persian. As in 'Aryamehr' = 'Light of the Aryans'.
 
So, does 'Mehrandokht' in Persian mean 'Daughter of Light', or perhaps 'Princess of Light?
 
Incidentally, I also read somewhere that the Persians called the River Indus as the 'Mehran' River. But 'Mehrandokht' couldn't have meant 'Daughter of Mehran River', could it? I mean, why would Yazdegerd name a daughter of his after the River Mehran. That river was not that important to him, or to Persia, was it?


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 25-Apr-2010 at 21:48
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 01:09

Kalhur, of course there is a large number of similar words in Iranian and Germanic languages but many of them have really a common Indo-European origin and similar words can be found in other IE languages too, for example about the first word that you mentioned, we see the Latin word for "Lip" is also "Lab/Labium".

The important thing is about the sound changes, the Middle Persian word for "Lip" is "Lap", "p" has been changed to "b" in the Modern Persian language and "Lab" is probably an Arabicized word, so we can already say that Swedish "Lep", English "Lip", Middle Persian "Lap" and Modern Persian "Lop" (Cheek), have all an Irano-Germanic origin.

The Kurdish word for "Lip" is "Lew", "p" to "w" is a normal sound change in the Iranian languages, for example as you mentioned, Middle Persian Rupa (fox) is "Rewi" in Kurdish.
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Hey, that's amazing. 'Fox' in Malay is 'rubah'. Maybe Persian took from Malay huh. Perhaps from ancient Malay seafarers who sailed across the Indian Ocean and up the Persian Gulf or something.Wink

Actually, some guys believe they really did.
 
But we use 'rupa', from Sanskrit 'roopa' I believe, for 'appearance'.


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 26-Apr-2010 at 02:37
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in my kurdish dialect it becomes( rewei) same word but different pronounciation in different IE languages. i believe it it means theif and robber as fox is stealing chicken around villages!!
malysia and indonesia have both cultural  and historical bands with iran most during the islamisation of these countries. maybe they took the word there or i don't know maybe they are speakers of IE languague too like in  india?

i wonder when in which period of time these people(IE) have been divided  for building different nations worldwide?

Cyrus you are right about changing from p to B ,because arabs do not have P in their language and many old iranian word has  been altered from P to B or from P to F like pirooz becomes firooz and so on to make possible for new iranians from arabic origin to speak persian.

mehran is name for men  mehrandokht could be reffering to mehran's daughter and mehran also could be name for a place too there is a town called mehran in western iran.
the name like
irandokht and turandokht are reffering to be daughter of iran and daughter of turan indicating the nationality.
 my late mother's name was Irandokht she passed away nearly 35 years ago using old iranian name was a tradition in our tribe not following iranisiation trend from pahlavi dynasti.
 my mother was born before pahlavi time, it was a very common name in my tribe for girls.


Edited by kalhur - 26-Apr-2010 at 03:50
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 12:39
isen't that good time to make them ARYAN too?after all we are all human and IE were originally from asia

Yes, according to the prevailing theory but some Scholars believe the IE homeland was E. Europe. Colin Renfew believes it was Asia Minor which most scholars do not agree with. The Tarim Basin mummies go back close to 4,000 so it shows that European looking people did migrate east as well as west.

Basing on the myth of the Titans though is farfetched though. Granted there is always truth to myth, but I would not be put all theory into them, some Afro Centrist like Martin Bernal seem to. (Another thread)

It is a very complex issue and people have been migrating in and out of that region for thousands of years. I tend to agree with the Goth theory that some mentioned. But, I wonder how much impact the Post Islamic invasions on E. Roman, N. African, and Indians land had on the gene pool. Let alone the thousands of slaves, during the Ottoman period, sold in the slave markets of Persia. We can talk about IE theory but what about later migrations, forced or volunteer.
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Posts: 263 		  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 13:43
 due to  Y HG  evidence and language similarity maybe the  GOTH origin theory is the nearst  to truth.
today with the help of  DNA technic it is not difficult to detect the path of imigration of different tribes.  according to those figures published by europedia, both kurds in turkey and germans have nearly same % of y haplo I which is often called germanic marker, but in iranian or iraqi kuredstan this % is not even  couple of % .
it would be very nice if some anthropolg could check if blond guys in southern kurdestan and lurestan  have germanic Y HG or it is just occured separately like KALASHA  in pakistan? at the end saying the kurds are germans is still not a right world to use, because there is a couple of thousends years of cultural and racial separation and a great mix with different races. in germany besiade I the R1b is the highest and even many other typse in kurdestan there are high amount of  HG T  and J2 . then maybe people with same origin have contribute a large amount  of   DNA  Y  hg, but it is not corecct to call germans kurds or kurds germans.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 14:57
Yes, I now see that some of you have made a little change towards the "Gothic" model of the past!

But, following the currently accepted version of Goth history is somewhat confused! At least to me. As is the theory of the Vandals!, and other groups whose only known history / histories, is/are passed too us via second or third or fourth hand accounts!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 27-Apr-2010 at 14:58
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 17:47
Originally posted by eaglecap

isen't that good time to make them ARYAN too?after all we are all human and IE were originally from asia

Yes, according to the prevailing theory but some Scholars believe the IE homeland was E. Europe. Colin Renfew believes it was Asia Minor which most scholars do not agree with. The Tarim Basin mummies go back close to 4,000 so it shows that European looking people did migrate east as well as west.
 
The prevailing theory for the Proto-Indo-European homeland is  Eastern Europe ( Ukraine and part of Russia),  not Asia.  See for example the cited pdf in this thread ( page 1 and note 2)
 
 
 


Edited by Sander - 27-Apr-2010 at 18:50
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Originally posted by kalhur

in my kurdish dialect it becomes( rewei) same word but different pronounciation in different IE languages. i believe it it means theif and robber as fox is stealing chicken around villages!!
malysia and indonesia have both cultural  and historical bands with iran most during the islamisation of these countries. maybe they took the word there or i don't know maybe they are speakers of IE languague too like in  india?
I was just kidding around, Kal. My frank opinion is that 'rubah' was adopted into Malay from Persian 'rupa'. Yes, Malay cultural and economic links with Persia date back to the early Christian era, at least, when our earliest formal kingdoms were believed to have arisen.
 
Only our links with the Indian region would have started even earlier cos India is nearer to us geographically. That's why easily 60 - 70% of Malay lexicon is of Indic (Sanskrit, Pali, Tamil etc.) origin, although many Malays today may not be even aware of it.
 
Still, anything is possible, cos our ancient ancestors were a seafaring people. And ancient Malay, or Malayo-Polynesian to use a broader term, seafarers were said to have sailed the high seas even earlier than the Indians and the Chinese. Ours was a matriarchical culture, and some scholars even posit that those seafarers were the ones who first introduced the idea of 'goddesses' into the Hindic pantheon, which previously was an all-male pantheon. Our ancestors were like, 'the Phoenicians of East Asia'. 


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 27-Apr-2010 at 18:31
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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