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Iranian Diversity

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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iranian Diversity
    Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 14:08
the guys in your picture looking more from pre- aryan imgrationShocked those baloch i have seen in balochestan they look very different!!!

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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 15:57
Guys, Emil is a pan Turkist racist brainwashed by decades of propaganda. Seriously, pick up a textbook from Turkey or Azerbaijan Republic and you will be shocked at some of the things they say.

No amount of evidence or facts you show him will change his mind, hes been programmed to look past all of that. Why waste your time?
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:34
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

I don`t think the thread reached it`s limit. Let`s talking about Balochi people. They are classified as Iranic people, because they speak Iranic language. This nation lived in south-eastern part of Iranian plateau, near Indian Ocean. I find huge presence Australoid race type among them. May be Balochi are partly descendants of iranized ancient population, which were close to Dravidians and other Australoid pre-Aryan population of Indian sub-continent.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Balochi langauge is believed to have originated in west iran as the dialect is close to Kurdish and other NW dialects.  Maybe the tribes that migrated south mixed with the Dravidians, or the Dravidians moved more west from south india.

Not all Balochi look like that, many of them have lite skin and look iranic.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:52
Dravidians have been gone for millenia, who they (Baluch)  have mixed with are the Makrani African people, Brahui nomads (Mostly Indian stock),  Pashtuns, and Persians.



Edited by Afghanan - 22-Apr-2010 at 16:56
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:55
Here is a Baluch man from Afghanistan:

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 18:07
there is a tribe called bashgardi in iranian balochistan and they have a very light skin and sometimes with blue eyes too. i was visiting southern iran early 1964 and we saw some baloches tribemen with very european feature and our  driver who was from sistan told us . they are  BASHGARDI , it was amazing. balochs shifte in phenotype very much from tribe to tribe, but i never saw a black  balochs. there are som mix with african slaves  in people from bandar abas  or bandare busheher, but i doubt it is from dravidian origin!

Edited by kalhur - 23-Apr-2010 at 02:23
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 23:04

Talysh people

 
The Talysh peoples (Harzani, Kajali, Karingani, Takistani, Talysh) inhabit the northwestern regions of Iran. One group can also be found in southeastern Azerbaijan. They occupy a land of sharp contrasts, ranging from the high, forested Talysh Mountains, to the subtropical coastal land along the Caspian Sea. They refer to themselves as the Talushon, and speak an Indo-Iranian language that is also called Talysh. Although all of the Talysh groups speak their native language, most are also fluent in Azerbaijani, and some speak Russian or Farsi.

The Talysh have lived in the southwest Caspian Sea region for thousands of years. They came under Turkish influence during the Middle Ages, but established their own independent khanate, or kingdom, in the 1600's. In the early 1800's, the Talysh of present day Azerbaijan fell under Russian control, which continued until 1991 when Azerbaijan seceded from the Soviet Union. Today, the Talysh face the same dilemma as many other Central Asian peoples as they attempt to decide whether to follow the Islamic traditions of the past, or the Western culture and technology of the present.

What Are Their Lives Like?
The lifestyles of the five Talysh groups vary greatly due to the differences in their environments. However, regardless of the region in which they live, the majority of Talysh are farmers. In some areas, rice is the primary crop; in others, wheat and barley are grown. Tea and citrus fruits are raised in the lowlands near the Caspian Sea. Many of the Talysh living in the lowlands cultivate fresh produce, including garlic, onions, pumpkins, melons, peas, and grapes.

Not all of the Talysh are farmers. Some have become skilled craftsmen. Their primary handicrafts include silk, rugs, and felt. Some work with tin, make shoes, or design jewelry.

The Talysh live in various styles of houses, depending on the region in which they are located. Those in the mountainous areas typically live in flat-roofed homes built of uncut stone. Those in the coastal zone live in clay houses that have roofs made of reeds or sedge (grass-like plants with solid stems). The homes usually have high doors reaching to the ceiling, since there is no opening in the roof to allow smoke from the cooking fires to escape. The traditional Talysh homes have no furniture. However, today, a growing number of homes have adopted Western-style furnishings.

Talysh women once wore traditional Muslim clothing, which consisted of veils over their faces and long robes that completely covered their bodies. Today, many Talysh women, especially those in Azerbaijan, have abandoned the customary outfit and wear Western-style clothing.

Although Islamic law permits men to have as many as four wives, most Talysh men take only one wife. Boys usually marry while they are between the ages of 15 and 20; whereas, girls usually wed while they are between the ages of 12 and 16. The groom's family is required to pay a bride-price, or kebin, which consists of money and items such as carpets or utensils. To avoid paying the kebin, a young man will sometimes "kidnap" the prospective bride, taking her as his wife.

What are their beliefs?
The Talysh are virtually 100% Muslim, primarily of the Shi'ite branch. They consider Jesus to be a prophet, a teacher, and a good man, but not God's son. Since Islam is a religion of works, they believe that after death they will be judged by their good deeds and by their knowledge of the Koran. Like other Muslims, they observe the five "pillars" of Islam, which include affirming that Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his prophet, praying five times a day, giving alms generously, fasting, and making a pilgrimage to Mecca.

Although the Talysh are professing Muslims, some remnants of their pre-Islamic religion remain. For example, they have a great reverence for trees and groves, and trees form some of their most sacred sites. They also believe in the presence of both good and evil spirits, with the most dangerous spirit being Alazhan, the "Red Woman." Alazhan is believed to attack women during childbirth, as well as newborn babies.

What are their needs?
Azerbaijan faces the most severe economic problems of the three former Soviet Transcaucasus republics. It is burdened with high unemployment and a long tradition of corruption, both of which pose a threat to economic growth.

Iran has strictly enforced the "Islamic code of conduct" since the 1979 revolution. This code states that men are the leaders and women care for the children and home. The government's persecution of Christians has increased dramatically since the revolution.

The Talysh have been bound by Islam for many years. Most of them have not had an opportunity to hear a clear presentation of the Gospel. These precious people are in desperate need of Christian resources in their own language. At the present time, there are no Christian broadcasts, Bibles, or literature available to them, and none of the groups are being targeted by missions agencies. Willing laborers and evangelistic tools are needed to effectively penetrate these groups with the Light of the Gospel. Most importantly, they need people who will begin to faithfully intercede for them, tearing down the strongholds that are keeping them in spiritual bondage. Only then will their hearts be prepared to receive the Gospel as it is presented to them.

Prayer Points
Pray for greater freedom to preach the Gospel in Iran and Azerbaijan.
Ask God to give the small number of Talysh believers opportunities to share the Gospel with their friends and families.
Pray that God will send medical teams and humanitarian aid workers to minister to the needs of the Talysh.
Ask God to raise up prayer teams who faithfully stand in the gap for the Talysh.
Take authority over the spiritual principalities and powers that are keeping the Talysh bound.
Pray that the Lord Jesus will reveal Himself to these precious people through dreams and visions.
Ask God to raise up linguists to translate the Bible and other Christian materials into Talysh.
Pray that local churches will be planted among the Harzani, Kajali, Karingani, Takistani, Talysh.

 
Image from Talysh land


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 23-Apr-2010 at 23:53
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 23:15
 I have a feeling that Pan-Turkist Azerbaijani government making an attempt to erase all Iranic past of their lands. They use typical for Pan-Turkist fascistic methods like mother tongue ban, compulsory official language, population replacing, assimilation, fake demographics, economical oppression... Such a things very, very familiar to me.
 
According to talysh activist Ismail Shabanov:
"A massive resettlement of Kurds to the originally Talysh-populated southern regions of Azerbaijan is underway. Some 5,000 Kurds have moved to Lenkoran alone, plus some 500-1,500 people per village. Intolerable conditions for the locals are being created: they cannot buy land or open businesses. While the Talysh population is strangulated by excessive regulation, the newcomers are given preferential treatment. All the young Talysh people have left the region. In broad daylight, we see Azerbaijan destroy the ancient civilization and the language in which Avesta, the primary collection of sacred texts of Zoroastrianism, was written"
 
International organizations such as Washington Profile, UNPO and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty have voiced their concerns about the arrest of Novruzali Mamedov, Chairman of the Talysh Cultural Centre and editor-in-chief of the "Tolyshi Sado" newspaper. He was arrested and tried in the court of grave crimes, after the newspaper published articles showing well known Persian poet Nezami, whose mother, named Ra'isa, was of a Kurdish background, and Iranian historical hero Babak Khoramdin as Talysh
 
Tats people who lived from very ancient time in southern slopes of Caucasus mountain are present from official propaganda as a new-comers. The ancient Sassanid fortress of Derbent (now in Russia)- as an Azeri fortress and even Azeri have a territorial claims over this region.
 
Azerbaijani soldiers filmed from Iran destroying Armenian khachkars (ancient stone crosses) at Julfa.
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  Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 05:05
Sorry but what do you know about Derbent? Untill 1922 it was part of Azerbaijan (as always) but given to Dagestan by Bolsheviks. Even today its still Azeri majority.

Derbent (Russian: Дербе́нт; Azeri: Dərbənd; Lezgian: Кьвевар; Avar: Дербенд; Persian: دربند; Judæo-Tat: דארבּאנד / Дэрбэнд / Dərbənd[1]) is a city in the Republic of Dagestan, Russia, close to the Azerbaijani border. It is the southernmost city in Russia, and it is the second most important city of Dagestan. Population: 101,031 (2002 Census); 78,371 (1989 Census). The Azeris are the main ethnic group (80%), followed by Lezgins (15%) and Tabasarans (5%).

Tats are insignificant.


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 25-Apr-2010 at 05:07
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  Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 05:08
Very funny about Talyshs. They enjoy far more rights then Azeris in Iran for instance.
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 12:57
Guys seriously, no amount of evidence, facts, science, etc... will convince Emil otherwise. He has been brainwashed by decades of pan Turkist and Soviet propaganda. He will not change his mind over a simple discussion in a thread.

Believe me, these people will only change if they want to, and he doesnt want to. I can post him pages and pages of historical documents, historical maps, genetic data, etc... which prove him wrong, yet he will simply ignore it all because that is what hes been programmed to do. This is how brainwashing works, its hopeless until hes willing to accept that his point of view may be wrong, which hes not programmed to do.
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  Quote Molokane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 12:59
So the most intricate and perplexed issue in Persian anthropology is:

Did Europeans migrate to Iran from Scandinavia or did Europeans migrate from Persia to the rest of Europe?

Another good question would be,

If Europeans migrated to Europe from Iran, did any of these groups such as the ancient Slavs and Balts go back to Persia and help preserve the phenotypes such as the Qashqai or Talysh?
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  Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 13:03
Simba, what are you bubbling about?


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 25-Apr-2010 at 13:17
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 14:12
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev

Simba, what are you bubbling about?


What I'm talking about is your skewed view of history and actual historical facts, which then interferes with your ability to have a real discussion on modern day issues.
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 14:31
those talyshi girls are looking very original iranian to me, the variation in skin colour is much depending on  UV rays rather than race . the same people with same racial background can have different skin colour depending to the geografical location. Iran is a very large country with very different climate and same people can have a great variation in skin colour . because of this factor,
by the way they do not look different from azeris or kurds. or persians. there are many persian vilagers in alborz mountain they have same fair skin  and look due to the climate. 
Emil i wonder how we can see  the difference if some one is persian or kurd or azeri  and how could we discriminate azeris and not persian or talyshis?



Edited by kalhur - 25-Apr-2010 at 14:40
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  Quote Molokane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 15:09
Originally posted by kalhur

those talyshi girls are looking very original iranian to me, the variation in skin colour is much depending on  UV rays rather than race . the same people with same racial background can have different skin colour depending to the geografical location. Iran is a very large country with very different climate and same people can have a great variation in skin colour . because of this factor,
by the way they do not look different from azeris or kurds. or persians. there are many persian vilagers in alborz mountain they have same fair skin  and look due to the climate. 


On a larger scale, climate will affect skin pigmentation. But Indo-Europeans have only been around in central Asia for less than a triennium. That is not enough time for any characteristic to evolve. However, what may be a better theory is that since Iran is indeed so versatile to its climate, several ethnic groups favored certain climates according to their levels of melanin and migrated accordingly, such as the Talysh peoples in the North and darker various groups to the south. Siberia is a perfect example of climactic evolution. It's one of the coldest places on Earth and yet its people indigenous to the land reflect an abundance of Mongoloid traits (dark skin, hair, and almond eyes, etc.). 
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 15:43
i do not mean facial feature, but if you go skiing in high altitude where there is great amount of UV   you can get a  much more brown skin temporarely. many people from scandinavia are going to yearly sun vaccation and they go white and coming back nicely copper brown after only a few week exposure to stronger sun. there is huge difference in climate between northern iran and  coasts of persian gulf!of course facial feature is not so different between a khuzestani in south and mazandarani or kurds in northern part, but more stronger sun a more darker skin in general, but there are always some exceptions too.

Edited by kalhur - 25-Apr-2010 at 15:44
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 15:43
Originally posted by Molokane

Originally posted by kalhur

those talyshi girls are looking very original iranian to me, the variation in skin colour is much depending on  UV rays rather than race . the same people with same racial background can have different skin colour depending to the geografical location. Iran is a very large country with very different climate and same people can have a great variation in skin colour . because of this factor,
by the way they do not look different from azeris or kurds. or persians. there are many persian vilagers in alborz mountain they have same fair skin  and look due to the climate. 


On a larger scale, climate will affect skin pigmentation. But Indo-Europeans have only been around in central Asia for less than a triennium. That is not enough time for any characteristic to evolve. However, what may be a better theory is that since Iran is indeed so versatile to its climate, several ethnic groups favored certain climates according to their levels of melanin and migrated accordingly, such as the Talysh peoples in the North and darker various groups to the south. Siberia is a perfect example of climactic evolution. It's one of the coldest places on Earth and yet its people indigenous to the land reflect an abundance of Mongoloid traits (dark skin, hair, and almond eyes, etc.). 


The eskimos skin tone is to due them geting Vitamin D from fish.  As for others they might be not natives and could of arived much later.
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  Quote Molokane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 22:27
Has anyone taken into consideration of the Greeks/Byzantines and Russian influences in Persia? Greeks have been at war with the Persians since the beginning of time and it's safe to say people did pillage a lot of the areas back in the day. And the Russo-Persian wars did dwell for centuries to come in the North part of Iran. Perhaps that's why the North is much lighter than the rest of Iran? After all it just takes a few minutes to implant your seed.
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  Quote Molokane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 22:37
Originally posted by kalhur

i do not mean facial feature, but if you go skiing in high altitude where there is great amount of UV   you can get a  much more brown skin temporarely. many people from scandinavia are going to yearly sun vaccation and they go white and coming back nicely copper brown after only a few week exposure to stronger sun. there is huge difference in climate between northern iran and  coasts of persian gulf!of course facial feature is not so different between a khuzestani in south and mazandarani or kurds in northern part, but more stronger sun a more darker skin in general, but there are always some exceptions too.


My apologies Kalhur. I misread your statement.
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