Iranian Languages

When did the modern Iranian languages evolve? How much of it is outside influenced.  Did the Turkic control of Iran have any linguastic influence on the Iranian langauges?

Did the Iranians of Parthia and Sassanid era all spoke a closer langauge to eachother?

If you cansider modern Persian, Turkic languages have certainly had a strong influence on our language, it can be said at least one half of modern Persians words have Turkic, Arabic and Mongolic origins, of course it is not difficult to distinguish these words from otiginal Persian words, for example we know there is no q (ق) sound in Persian, so all words in Persian with sound have either Turkic or Arabic origin, of course Turkic word seems to be much more, if you just open the "Q" sections of a Persian dictionary then you will find hundreds Turkic words, like Qab "Plate, Dish", Qablama "Steam-tight", Qabuq "Skin", Qaen "Brother of husband", ...

That is a good mention, you can hardly find a large book like the Persian book of Shahnameh of Ferdosi with almost no non-Persian words in other languages, even in modern times there are some people like Dr. Kazzazi (his website: http://www.kazzazi.com) who can speak Persian without using any non-Persian words, of course it can't be denied that some loanwords are easier to say than original Persian words, for example there was certainly a Persian word for "restaurant" but that was "khordipazkhanag" (place for eating food).

Does anyone have any info on the Kurdish dialects Gorani? It's origin?  I just cannot understand hardly what a Gorani speaker says at all.   I understand and speak Kurmanji a bit and can pretty much understand Sorani about the same as it does not have big difference to Kurmanji. 

Originally posted by kalhur i am speaking kalhor dialect which is very near or simmilar to gorani . sandjabi and ghalkhni  which are south kurdish tribes  dialects and near to sorani  dialect spoken in iraqi kurdestan.  no wonder that you  do not understand  south kurdish dialects.  we may  understand  kurmanji , but speaking  kurmanji even  hawrami and zaza  is impossible for me .  the south kurdish dialects are very mixed or if not drived from  sasanid (pahlavi language) origin, because the region where  we lived was in  the heart of sasanid  empire.(between biseton and ctisfon)

For me I think it is the accent and they way they pronounce words that makes the difference.  at times I can pick up more of a what Persian speaker says.  I my self can understand Kuramnji ok not great. but I cannot speak it maybe some words at times.  It's like I've forgot the language and get reminded when I hear it.

Heres an example of Hawramani.  Apart from maybe few words I cannot understand anything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GERJdZl5goo

I found this and thought I post it on this thread. 

Note ş=Sh, ç=Ch
Kurdish is Kurmanji/Sorani

Persian : Kurdish : Zazakî : English

şeb : şev/w : şewe : day
rûz : roj : roce/roje/roze : day
zêmêstan : zivistan/zimistan : zimistan : winter
payîz : payîz : payîz : autumn
fesl : werz : waxt : season
sal : sal/sall : serre : year
zeman/dem : dem/kat/sat/taw/tad : dem/taw : time
dêrext : dar : dar : tree
mah : heyv/mang/meh: aşme/menge : moon/month
ebr : ewr/hewr : hewr : cloud
gol : gûl : vil : flower
kûh : çiya/kêw/şax/ko : ko : mountain
ahen : asin/esin : asin : iron
asiman : asman/ezman/siqa : asmên/ezmîn : sky
roşenayî : ronî/ronakî/roşna : roştî/roşna : light
berf : befr/berf/wefr : vewre : snow
giyah/sebzê : giya/biheş : vaş : grass
mêh : mij : mic : fog
bad : b/wa : va : wind
ab : av/w : aw(k) : water
şo'lê/şerarê/azerexş : bilûske/birûsk : blosk : flame/lightening
baran : b/waran : varan : rain
berg : belg/welg : velg : leaf
sêtarê : stêr/estêre/hes(t)are : estare/astare : star
xaher : xweh/xweyşk/xwîsk : waye : sister
nam : nav/naw/nam : name : name
mader : dayk/mak/daye/mader : maye : mother
pêder : bav/bab/bawk/piyar : pî : father
merd : mêrd/piyaw : ca-mêrd
êzdêvac : zewac/marî : zewac : marriage
bîve : bî/bîwe : viye : widow
cevan : cûwan/ciwan : genc : young
damad : zava/zawa/zama : zama : sun-in-law
dozd : diz : dizd : thief
zen : jin/jen : cênî/cinî
mêhman : mêvan/mêman : mêman : guest
merdom : merdim/mirov : merdûm/merdim/mordem
zîr : jêr : cêr : under/below
gam : gam/gav : gam : step
çêşmê/xan : kanî : henî/hênî : well/spring
kard : kard/kêrd : kardî
kar : kar : kar : word/labor
der : derî/derga : kê-ber
pol : pird/pir : pird : bridge
dêh/rûsta : gûnd/dê : dewe/deĝa
rast : rast : rast : right
çep : çep : çep :left
şanê : şane : şane : comb
balêş : balîf/baliş : balişna : pillow
ca : cê/cêga/cih : ca : place
şam : şîv/şîm : şamî : dinner
esel/engêbîn : hengwên/hengîv : hemgên : honey
gendom : genim : genim : wheat
nana : nan : nan : bread
sîb : sêv/w : saye : apple
gûşt : goşt : goşt : meat
şîr : şîr : şît : milk
ard : ard/ar : ardî : flour
mast : mast : mast : yogurt
ser : ser : ser : head
şêpêş : espije : espije/espize : louse
kolyê : gûrçik/gûrçîle : velik : kidney
zeban: ziman/ziwan//zûwan : ziwan/zûwan/zon
dendan : didan/dan/diyan : dindan : tooth
leb : lêv/lêw/lîp : lew : lip
dest : dest : dest : hand
xûn : xwîn/xwêyn : gonî : blood
ebrû : birow/birû : birûy/bûrî : eye-brow
ostoxan : este/heste/hêstik : este : bone
gûş : gwê/gwêyşke/gûh/goşke : goş : ear
dom : dû/dûv/dûçke/dim : dim/dimoçik/doçik : tail
rû/sûret : rû/bîç : rî : face
sengîn (geran) : giran : giran : heavy
xerab : xirab/w : xirab/v : dickey/bad
teng : teng/tenik : teng : tight/narrow
por : pirr : pirr : full
xoş : xweş : weş : fine/sweet
kohen/kohnê : kevn/kewn/kewne : khan : antique
sebok : sivik/sewk : sivik/senik : light/slight
merîz/naxoş : nexweş : neweş : ill
amade : amade : amade : ready
tarîk : tarî/tarîk/darîk : tarî : dark
azad : azad : azad : free
germ : germ : germ : worm
serd : sar/serd/soll : serd : cold
têşnê : tî/tînî/tînig : têşan : thirsty
dur : dur : dur : far
dêraz : dirêj : derg : long
bolend : berz/bilind : berz : tall
nezdîk : nêzîk : nezdî : near
tenha : tenê/tenya : teyna : alone
nîmê : nîv/nîwe/nîme : nême : half
tazê/nô : nû/nûwe/noy/new : newe : new
gorosnê : birsî/birçî/wirsî : vêşan : hungry
tû/der : le/de/li/di/ne : de : in
arê : erê/ê/ey : eya : yes
ba : be/bi : be : with
xod : xwe/xo : xwi/xo/ho
baxod : bixwe/bexo : bexo : (with) itself
çend : çend : çend/çand : how much
çêra : çima/çira/boçî/perçî : çira : why
kêy : kengê/key/ken : key : when
ber : ber/wer : ver : fore/front
bî : bê : bê : without
hest : heye/hes : est : it exists
ne : na/ne/no : ne : no
solh/aştî : aştî : aştî : peace
yad (bîr) : bîr/wîr : vîrî : remembrance
dêl : dill (zill) : zerre : heart
kes : kes : kes : someone/person
bûsê/maç : paç/maç/mûç : baç : kiss
sahêb : xawen : wayir : possessor/owner
xoda : xwedê/xûday/xwa : hûmay : God
ceng : şerr/ceng : ceng : war
sêda/bang : deng/bang : veng : voice
soal (pors) : pirs : pers : question
dam : dav/daw/dam : dame : snare
şerm : şerm : şerm : shame
xab : xewn/xew : hewn : sleep
dorûĝ : direw : zûrî : lie
qesem/sogend : sond/at (?) : sond : swear
bes : bes : bes : enough
bar : bar : bar : burden
sêfîd : sipî : sipê/sipî : white
siyah : reş/siye : siya : black
qêrmêz/sorx : sûr/sor : sûr : red
zerd : zerd/zer : zerd : yellow
zerr : zêrr : zerrn : gold
noqrê (sîm) : zîv/sîm : sêm : sîlvêr
gav : ga/gaw : ga : cow
xer : ker : her : donkey
boz : bizin : bize : goat
berrê : berx/werek : verek : goatling
mîş : mî/pez/mêş : miye/mêş : sheep
gorg : gûr/gûrg/werg : verg : wolf
cûcêtîĝî : jûjî/jûşk : jûje/cûce : hedgehog
mar : mar : mar : snake
esp (ester) : esp/hesp/ester
mûş : mişk : merre : mouse
esp (ester) : esp/hesp/ester : estor : horse
mahî : masî : mase : fish
gorbê : kitik/pişik/pisî : pising : cat
morĝ : mamir/mirîşk/kerg : kerge : hen
kûrmûş : koremişk : herremûşk : mole
rûbah : rovî/rêvî : lûwe : fox
xûk : beraz/xûk/xwîg : xozî : pig
xêrs : hirç/hirş/wirç : heş : bear
yêk : yek/êk/ye : yew/yo/jû : one
do : du/didu : di/didi : two
sê : sê : hirê : three
çahar : çwar/çar : çar : four
penc : pênc/penc : panc : five
şîş : şeş : şeş :six
heft : heft/hewt : hewt : seven
heşt : heşt/heyşt : heşt/heyşt : eight
noh : neh/now : new : nine
deh : deh/de : des : ten
kerden : kirin/kirdin : kerdene : to do
morden : mirin/mirdin : merdene : to die
xasten : xwastin/wîstin : wastene : to want
bordan : birin/birdin : berdene : to carry
avorden : anîn/hênan/awirdin : ardene : to bring
ameden : hatin : amayene : to come
gêrêften : girtin : girewtene/gûretene : to take
xanden : xwendin : wendene : to read
dûşîden : dotin : ditene : to milk
borîden : birrîn : birrnayene : to cut
gêryê kerden (gêrîsten) : giryîn/girîn : bermayene : to cry
nêvêşten : nûsîn/nivîsîn : nûştene : to write
manden : man : mendene : to remain
daden : dan/dayîn : dayene : to give
koşten : kûştin : kiştene : to kill
sûxten : şewitin/sûçyan : veşayene : to burn
gerdîden : gerryan/gorîn : vurnayene : to turn into
forûxten : firotin : rotene : to sell
xaranden/xarîden : xurandin/xûrîn : hûryayene : to itch
nûşîden (aşamîden) : vexwarîn/hellqorrîn : şimitene : to drink
bûden/şoden : bûn/bûyîn/bîn : biyene : to become/to be
fehmîden : fehm kirdin/têgeyştin : fehm kerdene : to understand
nêşêsten : rû nîstin/da nîştin : ro niştene : to sit/ sit down
poxten : pehtin/kûllyan : potene : to cook
danêsten : zanîn/zanistin : zanayene/zanitene : to know


Edited by Ince - 19-Apr-2010 at 18:48

Ince 

Edited by kalhur - 19-Apr-2010 at 18:15

it has so many different speculation about the origin of name kurd. one was the explanation of our litrature teacher att school  was this:. that is might reffering to  word GORD  in pahlawi language  which means warrior as we know in my region the southern kurdish tribes were very close to sasanide and they were presented as cavalay force and that our tribe kalhor is often called tribe of bavandi or bavandpour. our region was called bavandpori. there are people in mazandaran province which are speaking a dialect which is very close to ours and it is said they have same origin as us ( house of bavand sasani), they are bavandi( a people of  sasanide  origin) sasanides had kermanshah as capital, but some of sasanides after arab invasion moved to mazandaran and organised a resistance there - i am not historien scholar like the gentlemen in thise history site and not studied history i don't know how right or wrong is these things.  in languages i am speaking from my own observation only because i lived in many different places and was forced to learn their languages.

Edited by kalhur - 19-Apr-2010 at 19:43

in our tribe the names are very much like old sasanides. both men and women. 

Originally posted by kalhur kurmanji spoken in northern parts of iraq and turkey is much more near to persian  than south kurdish dialect, exemple farsi  khadane be zabane  kordi(it is writen khvandan in persian like kurmani ,but spoken khandan!!!) kurmanji kvandena va zemana kordi. my dialect. xwenin wa zwanie kordi

Kurmanji is believed to have originated near the Luristan and Isfahan provance and shares many similarties with the Persian dialect.  Actually Sorani is little more closer to Persian, but Kurmanji does a have a few words that are similar that Sorani does not.

My theory is that the Kurmanji speakers migrated to north to Anatolia during or after the Sassanids.  The term Kurd was most likely adopeted by the the Kurds after the fall of the Sassanids, as the word Kurd meant Nomadic tribes,Iranian tribes during the Sassanid era. In the Mazandarani language it means Sheppard, maybe the region was called Kurd and Median tribes came together do to similarties and adopted the name Kurd.  

Also it is strange that Kurmanji shares similarties with Persian, yet majortiy of the time after fall of the Sassanids they were out of Persian control.  So I doubt the Corduene were ancestors of the Kurds as they were very unfriendly towards Persia and was mostly under Roman/Byzantine control.