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Social Justice and the Death Penalty.

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Social Justice and the Death Penalty.
    Posted: 08-Mar-2010 at 13:56
Dear Scorge of the West! Are you of Germanic extraction?

Please see; http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Hunnish/

And, you well know that in polite company one does not mention executing almost everyone! Such ways are mostly considered as "barbarian" today!

Regards,
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  Quote Scourge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2010 at 10:03
Real mature post and way to continue on a discussion.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2010 at 19:25
Well I do consider you as a "Hun!"

The less "Huns" the better!
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  Quote Scourge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2010 at 16:40
Originally posted by opuslola

Well Scourge, we can well see how you adopted your moniker!   

But, we will have to see just how long you wish to continue in this manner! Opinions are one thing, but really radical thinking like you presented above will not sit you in good stead with a lot of folks on this forum!

But, I kinda like it!


No I named my moniker after Atilla the Hun from his moniker given by the Romans "Scourge of God" So thats how that happened and yeah I am a radical and I like that there isn't enough radical thinkers out there like me and if they are they are considered "Mad men". Though I just like to have discussions with people to try to get my point of view across to people whilst discussing historical events.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

So, in you're opinion, to get rid of these evil people we must act even more evil by committing mass murder and inflicting wars "unparalleled to WWII" on those who disagree with us?

I didnt know the Hitler Youth still operated LOL

I agree that our prison system needs to be reformed, and we must act to lower crime rates, but you're methods will do more harm than good.


haha.....Now all jokes aside this ideal wouldn't cause harm. Its like I said it would cull the valueless. Its like plants when your growing a plant and one of the leaves is dying and is draining from the rest of the plant it gets culled or like in the wild when an animal is sick and the herd is moving they are left behind plain and simply because their inherent value has left society as a whole and needs to be removed. What I am suggesting isn't to out their and wouldn't cause that much destruction or death just some but like I said its almost like a religious ideal. Through destruction a new order that is better will come about with a class of "Warrior Farmers" like I said people who are stand up and care about America not this wishy washy PC joke America has become.

These "Warrior Farmers" in order to achieve this ideal would need to take over politics, police, military and corrections and congress in order to make this happen. The ideal would be one of greatness not seen ever before in history. Cause we all know America is the greatest country in the world and all this would do is make it better. I mean imagine what people would say to America if we did this. Nothing at all cause they would know it is right and correct.


Edited by Scourge - 03-Mar-2010 at 16:47
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2010 at 14:21
Well Scourge, we can well see how you adopted your moniker!   

But, we will have to see just how long you wish to continue in this manner! Opinions are one thing, but really radical thinking like you presented above will not sit you in good stead with a lot of folks on this forum!

But, I kinda like it!
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 22:50
So, in you're opinion, to get rid of these evil people we must act even more evil by committing mass murder and inflicting wars "unparalleled to WWII" on those who disagree with us?

I didnt know the Hitler Youth still operated LOL

I agree that our prison system needs to be reformed, and we must act to lower crime rates, but you're methods will do more harm than good.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 02-Mar-2010 at 22:51
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  Quote Scourge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 19:54
 
Originally posted by Scourge


My ideal and philosophy is the complete and utter destruction of this third class with a group of warrior farmers if you will. People who are great citizens, stand up guys and all around tough men ready to do anything to save the "collective" good. I know all about the formation of prisons and maybe the idea of "Penance" and how it was the transfer from whippings or torture to prisons and "swifter" and more "human" executions. These people aren't humans any more and lost their value and so inherently in order to save America these people need to be destroyed.
As Cyrus illustrated in his post, a state must use violence very carefully or diaster can result.  Nazism, Stalinism and Maoism murdered millions of innocents after leaders concluded that:
A. Membership in an ethnic group or a social class made one less than human.
B. These "non humans" threatned the collective good
C. "Tough action" could save the collective good of society
D.  An elite class of ideologically or ethnically pure "warriors" such as the S.S., NKVD, or  Red Guards
would carry out this action  
 
As a side note, Mao and Hilter both favored the concept of ideologically elite "warriors" coming from "unpolluted" rural farming backgrounds.  Stalin favored the "unpolluted" industrial worker concept.
 [/QUOTE]

To me Hitler, Stalin and Mao are all Geniuses and I also support the Idea of a "warrior farmer" who goes along with an ideology for the collective good of the American public. I think for far to long we've been to politically correct with things and far to lenient. I feel its time to be extreme with criminality. This third class of people I've stated are to be destroyed according to my plans. I also agree with not only destroying criminality from inside America but posing directives to Americans neighbors destroy criminality within your own borders or face a war unparalleled since world war two. Criminality and criminals are a waste upon the world that has yet to be focused upon correctly.  It has yet to be formalized with a correct plan that is remotely good or remotely smart. Collective gassing of about 85% of all the people in prison would just be one step closer to this Ideal I talk about and a refocusing of the police forces under neath this "warrior farmer" class and on the outside of prison a destruction all gangs and criminals who have committed serious felonies in the past even as children. If a person committed a murder at twelve and is in society he would face immediate execution underneath these plans. Any and all partisan groups, racist groups, lobbies, special interest groups any religious groups deemed to extreme would all face execution for the collective good of the public. With a new ideal and new belief imposed upon the people. If they gave me the mandate to carry out such ideals a new golden age never seen before would transpire and don't get me wrong I am talking about the mass execution of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people but this is the benefit of humanity and these people are human they just gave up their value when they decided it was time to look at America in a manner I would call betrayal.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 11:54
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think killing criminals increase violence in the society, in fact it spreads this idea that one who does something wrong can be easily killed, so feeling of killing loses its oppressive meaning, this is a very importnat thing, in the society that the government kills everyday a large number of criminals, killing is not considered as a very bad thing, so sometimes the people themselves decide and kill other ones.
 
Good point. Though I support the death penalty, once unecessarry state violence starts, state violence and other violence can "snowball" quickly resulting in disaster. 
  
Originally posted by Scourge


My ideal and philosophy is the complete and utter destruction of this third class with a group of warrior farmers if you will. People who are great citizens, stand up guys and all around tough men ready to do anything to save the "collective" good. I know all about the formation of prisons and maybe the idea of "Penance" and how it was the transfer from whippings or torture to prisons and "swifter" and more "human" executions. These people aren't humans any more and lost their value and so inherently in order to save America these people need to be destroyed.
As Cyrus illustrated in his post, a state must use violence very carefully or diaster can result.  Nazism, Stalinism and Maoism murdered millions of innocents after leaders concluded that:
A. Membership in an ethnic group or a social class made one less than human.
B. These "non humans" threatned the collective good
C. "Tough action" could save the collective good of society
D.  An elite class of ideologically or ethnically pure "warriors" such as the S.S., NKVD, or  Red Guards
would carry out this action  
 
As a side note, Mao and Hilter both favored the concept of ideologically elite "warriors" coming from "unpolluted" rural farming backgrounds.  Stalin favored the "unpolluted" industrial worker concept.
 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 02-Mar-2010 at 12:42
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  Quote Scourge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 11:07
Bump!
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  Quote Scourge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2010 at 17:46
I am an advocate that once something loses value. It is no longer needed and killers lose their value after conviction and are inherently valueless and are all also emotional drains, economic drains and social drains. They are like mushrooms; some you can eat and others are poisonous and only hurt you in the end. This also just isn't about destruction this is about the safety of America and the destruction of its enemies starting from the inside and working our way out. This philosophy is not just a "criminal justice" ideal or an ideal on how to run prisons. Its a social effect; theoretically it should work to instill fear cause in society in my opinion there are three types of people. The ethical moral people, the people who are afraid of punishment and the people who commit major criminality.

My ideal and philosophy is the complete and utter destruction of this third class with a group of warrior farmers if you will. People who are great citizens, stand up guys and all around tough men ready to do anything to save the "collective" good. I know all about the formation of prisons and maybe the idea of "Penance" and how it was the transfer from whippings or torture to prisons and "swifter" and more "human" executions. These people aren't humans any more and lost their value and so inherently in order to save America these people need to be destroyed.

Its almost a religious ideal; through destruction a new better and brighter creation is born. Something better than before. Something unimaginable; It seems wrong and ridiculous only cause its never been tried. Currently right now in the United States we have a broken political system, a corrupt criminal justice system, a facade of a president and a broken prison system. This ideal would revolutionize all of that by destroying it and creating a new way,  a new order and new peace that isn't questioned.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2010 at 10:48
That is a long post, I think less than one percent of the killers are "Serial Killers" or "Natural Born Killers", many of them kill other ones by accident, some of them kill to defend themselves and several other ones kill because of a simple mistake that they make, with a optimistic view, the majority of the killers don't deserve to be killed.
 
I think killing criminals increase violence in the society, in fact it spreads this idea that one who does something wrong can be easily killed, so feeling of killing loses its oppressive meaning, this is a very importnat thing, in the society that the government kills everyday a large number of criminals, killing is not considered as a very bad thing, so sometimes the people themselves decide and kill other ones.
 
We should spread this concept that life has a very high value and we can't easily decide to kill other ones.
 
Khayyam says:
 
Man bad konam thou bad mojazat dahi
Pas farghe man o thou chist begu?
 
[O God!] I do a bad thing and you give a bad punishment
May I know what is the difference between you and me? (both of us do bad)


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 24-Feb-2010 at 11:20
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  Quote Scourge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2010 at 22:36
For the benefit of humanity some people have to die I believe. Though not just random people. I believe that for the good of the community and humanity in general. Any and all life sentenced and death sentenced criminals should be executed and if it costs to much we are doing it wrong. People like Erick Smith and Karla Holmolka. Eric Smith is a 28 year old Serial Killer from upstate new york who has the possibility of getting out since he was a minor when he committed his crimes and in Canada Karla Holmolka took part in the Ken and Barbie murders yet she walks free to this very day living and breathing.


I think that  people like these it should be the very benefit of humanity that people like that are killed. Why waste money with a life sentence for a murder or letting them off on stupid laws. When the cops or someone else can just take him to a hole shot the murderer in the face and then bury him with a little rock that says "Name" and that is it. I mean whats the point of having a massive sprawling prison system?

That fact that people can kill people and the possibility is only about ten years. That is completely ridiculous. Yet criminals who sell drugs fill up prisons and jails.


What I am saying all who receive life or death should just be quickly executed. Instead of wasting time and effort to house these people for the rest of their lives and feeding them and so on. Why not just kill them all at one time. Like right now take every lifer in prison or on death row and kill them. I bet the world would be a million times a better place and that would be a lot of money saved that would have been other wise wasted on some scumbag murderer or rapist or something. I mean yeah sure there is appeals but most in prison for murder or whatever usually aren't there for not committing the crime. So maybe murdering an innocent once and a while will happen; MAYBE. Though in the long run the world will be a better place. Think about it all the rapists and murderers who get shorter sentences or the guys in prison just being taken out to the pasture so to speak. We would be saving money, resources and for a box of twenty five shotgun shells at the local store is like 10 bucks. I don't see how it costs more seriously.


That is twenty five dead prisoners with one shotgun. That would take maybe like 2 minutes to accomplish which would otherwise be countless years of the criminal living while the family feels the wounds deep inside forever. While the psycho gets to sit in his cell like the scum he is. With the state paying for him. Coming out of citizens tax money. Sometimes they get jobs inside the prisons which leads to a more comfortable life for them. Like extra food or something. Though seriously why waste anything on these people other than a box of shells? In my opinion humanity in general would benefit. I just think we give no ground with criminals. As they are scum.

I know it is a completely twisted set of morals that in a sense makes you just as bad. Though I'm just saying that serial killers and serial rapists are so maladaptive that nothing good could ever come of them. Some kid named Jason Massey was a would be serial killer. Whos entire goal in life he said and wrote down was to be a Serial Killer. That was his main life goal. What good could ever come of a person whos main life goal is to end lives? Except maybe studying how they operate to more easily identify them when they do arise. Which does give benefits to the police but many of them lie so much its kind of pointless. The fact how much criminals like that actually lie so much is kind of pathetic really. I mean people who are like 100% proven to be criminals competely deny it until their graves.


So that does sound kind of crazy at the end its like wow really. Though think what good would ever come; I mean seriously ever. All the hundreds of thousands maybe millions of dollars to house all these types of people would also be saved and would be able to help the local communities and countries as well. Like think about the money that could go into other things. Like schools or job creation.


No psychopathic criminal can be reformed ever. It is exactly that type of thinking that they take advantage of. This kid Eric Smith I just talked about is saying hes reformed. Yet when he was just a thirteen year old boy. He bashed a kids head in with a forty pound rock after choking him and then shoved a stick up the kids butt and then destroyed the kids cloths and hit him with some rocks and the list goes on. Though the most important thing is that he positioned the body in such a way that is striking and says a lot. He moved the rocks from the kids body and then took his right shoe and placed it next to his left hand and then took his left shoe and placed it next to his right hand.

He has a possibility for release into society because he has people on his side. Like Doctors and Lawyers; Though yeah I may not be as smart as a Doctor or a Lawyer but everybody has a price to say whatever you want them to say. Though People like Ted Bundy or other criminals say when they talk to Doctors they try as hard as they can to lie in order to "test" their ability to lie to people. No Psychopathic murderer or rapist has a chance for reform. They never ever do. Edmund Kemper a great example of what I am talking about. The same exact situation except he shot his grand parents to death. After he got released from juvenile prison he got out and killed five women and then killed his mother to absolutely nobodies surprise but the people who thought they he was "reformed"

It is my opinion that a person who has their goals set at killing in prison should be able to ever get out let alone be left alive at all.


In Canada a woman named Karla Holmolka is walking around who with her husband helped kill 3 people. One of them being her sister. That is how much she cared about people. Apparently in a conversation between her and Paul Bernardo he told her he was a rapist and she apparently thought that was "cool". She is allowed to walk around freely in the world; well really only Canada but you get the picture. These people have horrible characters.


I'm not advocating horrible and spotty investigations. I'm just saying the same thing why waste resources on these people to continue living when they have horribly effected society in such a way. Let the courts and the cops do their jobs yes but seriously why let these people live when they would for sh*ts and giggles or to feel powerful they go out and kill a woman or go rape some woman cause they like the idea of sexually abusing a person. It is such a horrible character stand point. I mean it definitely won't stop these people from killing. Though it will stop the other killers or rapists who do it for other reasons but really aren't killers or rapists at heart but are still horrible all the same. In my opinion Social justice needs to be carried out ruthlessly and order needs to be up held.

Cause currently right now it costs the state of California sixty three million dollars annually and about 90,000 dollars for each inmate on death row. That is more than the average wage made by the average citizen in the state of California. It would cost eleven million dollars to house each death row inmate at San Quentin for the rest of there lives; currently how ever that is as of December 2008 about 630 people awaiting execution from the State of California. So six hundred and thirty people multiplied by eleven millions equals six billion nine hundred and thirty million dollars to keep alive some of the worst Serial Killers California has to offer; Randy Kraft a Serial Killer of sixteen confirmed victims and is still a suspect in about fifty other cold cases through out the state of California; Charles Ng who killed upwards of twenty five people and there was an additional fifty pounds of unidentified bones found in and around the bunker where he was staying.


The list goes on and on with different murderers and their victims. The idea though is that why spend sixty million annually to keep said people alive. What I propose is instead of keeping these people alive and keeping them healthy until we give them a light murder and bury them is executing every single one of them. Through the creation of Secret police force created to deal with internal threats and dealing with economic issues through a rifle. Why spend millions if not billions to keep violent sociopaths alive when we can find a light way to execute them that won't turn men into sadists or make them break down. Like a gas chamber or a something. I know that sounds like a Nazi thing. Though let me explain the genius behind it.

If we were to carry out this said plan and repeal laws and make a new police force. There would have to be new laws and methods of execution cause if your constantly shooting people in the head it could change a man and from what I have read about execution squads many men can't handle it, like it or are in between though with a majority towards the extremes of breaking down or loving the idea that they murder people as a job. So it would be a waste of time to execute death row and life imprisonment inmates as their executioners would replace them as the criminals. It would just be making Serial Killers with badges. Basically it'd be like creating the unit out of the guys on the death row.

So a more meniel way would have to be conceived IE the gas chamber though the connentations for such an action are extreme and can carry with them much more mass murder as laws are changed to fit the said idea to rid prisons of violent sociopaths whom we the populace have to pay for. Though like I was saying such an action can quickly spiral out of control and become like Auschwitz or a Gulag under Stalin and this is not the idea behind that. So strict laws about what is constitutional and unconstitutional with this new police force of "Hard Men" whom are able to carry out the act of sending these violent sociopaths to their deaths. Cause such a police force can agrogate control. So there would have to be checks and balances between the new police.

The first law that would have to be changed are cruel and unusual punishment laws. Which currently state life imprisonment is constitutional and valid when in my opinion it is invalid and any person who has committed crimes enough to get life should in fact die cause they gave up their rights to life. They gave up their life outside the wall and why should they get a life on the inside. Where for some they live until ripe old ages. Charles Manson is 75 years old when in fact his life should have ended in 1969. With an already predug grave and a bullet to his head. That would have cost the people of california millions of dollars on trials, appeals and very pointless parole board hearings which will never ever release him ever.

I'm going to list laws and how they should be changed to provide this "New" police force with the power and limitations it would need to be a successful group of "Hard men" and efficient officers of the new law. Article I section 3 should be changed to take away the Senate's power of impeachment and their judgements on any of these matters should be taken away. Section 8 of article one should be changed taking away congresses power to provide militias and to execute the laws of the union; to declare war, to provide a navy and make rules for it, to provide punishment for all counterfitters. Article three of the constitution should be completely wiped from the laws; all three sections of article three should vanish. Amendment five of the bill of rights should be changed completely to fit with the new laws and so should amendment fifteen of the constitution which says on account of race, color or previous conditions. Which in my view "previous" conditions would be criminality.

With the changing of these laws it would enable to the government to create this new police force to save money with the economy and keep America safer. The cost of the entire justice system annually to run prisons is about thirty billion dollars a year. So with each state spending about thirty million of year for death row that would immeasurably save money and could be directed towards other internal threats in the United States like organized crime and criminal street gangs; with these threats inside of the prisons gone. More money can be directed to the other threats that actually oppose the citizens of the USA and most of all the children whom are effected by these criminals and create a vicious cycle only adding to the criminality of certain peoples.

On the economics side of the this New Study Reveals Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution, Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million, Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, Florida Spent Average of $3.2 Million per Execution from 1973 to 1988, The California Death Penalty System Costs Taxpayers More than $114 Million a Year, California would save $90 million per year if it were to change the death penalty. $78 million of these expenses are occurred at the trial level and would not be reduced by shortening appeals. With reforms to make executions happen immediatly it would reduce costs immensely all accross the board to institute these ideas. It cost far less to use a rifle to execute somebody than it does to keep them alive for twenty years with pointless appeals cases and countless more cases that cost millions upon millions of dollars. It currently cost the state of california 90,000 and the same with the state of Florida.


That means it cost the state of Florida about 900,000 dollars to keep Ted Bundy alive from 1978 until about 1989. Very unfair if you ask me for his thirty plus victims. Ted Bundy even though he was executed twenty years ago he is still a suspect in the disapearance of 12 women who disapeared in the early 70s. Their names are Nancy Baird, Ann Marie Burr, Lynette Culver, Julie Cunningham, Susan Curtis, Georgann Hawkin, Vicki Hollar, Debra Kent, Donna Manson, Denise Oliverson, and Nancy Wilcox. These women had no chance and got no curtoesy from Ted Bundy. He tricked this women into helping him, kidnaped them, murdered them and buried there bodies. Unfortunately he lived long after he killed all those women. His murder of Georgann Hawkins was methodical, cunning, and brutal. He tricked her with a suitcase and a cast. He lured her back to his car and smacked her on the back of the head with a crowbar he kept underneath the car behind the tire and then handcuffed her and drove her to his kill spot on Taylor Mountain; then he raped her and strangled her and cut her head off and kept it as a trophy and to masturbate to her head. Ted kept her head until it rotted out and then he burned it in a fire place and down to the last ash.

Why would a man who finds pleasure in such a perverted activity be kept alive and be allowed to have the folk hero that he is considered. He cared nothing for his victims and never once felt remorse and if he showed it it was a lie. Ted Bundy was a violent sociopath through and through. He was totally consumed with murdering women all the time and was a man who's entire life was devoted to murdering and raping as many women as he possibly could for power and sexual perversion. His sexual perversion was having sex with a girl and making her know he was going to kill her and then keep her head to masturbate to later on. This is my point exactly we should execute this men early on instead of waiting so they can do interviews, books and so on. It would save everybody money, give the families credence to feel better and most of all it would save the government and judicial system millions of dollars annually about four million per death row inmate.

It would be cost effective and more sane in my opinion. It makes absolutely zero sense to keep these men alive for as long as we do. The victims need justice and so does the US economy. I mean the hypocrisy in keeping condemned men alive for as long as we do is almost mind numbing to think about in my opinion especially when most of the men whom are condemned are like Ted Bundy and were motivated to commit violence on a large scale. Nothing massive but ordinary people doing extraordinary violence. Every about keeping them alive is unconstitutional and not right and unsafe for the American populace and humanity in general. I seem to see eye-to-eye on this matter with some. Anyone who intentionally kills someone should suffer the gravest consequences. My proposed swift and cheap method of executing serial murderes seems in a way "fair", however I can see a lot of problems arising from it. Though prison would be less of a burdern on the tax payers, yet worse for the victims' families and friends. There is of course the question of why there are so many murderers running around in America. What difference is there in society that causes this, compared to, say, in Sweden, where the crime rate is one of the lowest in the world? Although I do feel like serial killers should be executed swiftly and left to rot in the gutter. It may cause more problems than solve them in America especially with the right to life movement roaming around and death penalty inmate advocate groups.  

Though with guys like Gerard John Schaefer was an American Police Officer and Serial Killer who went to prison. There is no exact number of the crimes he committed they only have proof of him committing two murders and kidnapping two others. He maintained his innocence his entire life until he died. It cost about 200,000 for the state of Florida to house this criminal every year. He also wasted millions of dollars of the state of Florida in order to have constant appeals cases and he sued any person on tv,  books or whatever from prison that called him a serial killer. Wasting more money of the state of Florida. He did this constantly until he was murdered about ten years ago. Now all of that money is flowing towards the state of Florida and not Gerard John Schaefer's pathetic existence. This proves my point that sometimes a killing is okay and sometimes actual justice comes with a gun instead of a life sentence in a court of law. Gerard John Schaefer's are not just small instances. There are many people in prisons through out the United States that manipulate state and federal court systems. They actually can continue to do harm and waste money. They like like bugs who eat plants from the inside out and destroy gardens. When they are finally removed and placed inside of a prison. They can still manipulate the outside world from inside and waste precious resources like food, clothing, medal, wood, millions of dollars etc.... The list goes on. So really I think for the benefit of humanity and the world it really would be a better place.  

I am advocating mass executions of every single lifer and condemned inmate in prison. I think it could happen and I know this sounds crazy or even criminal. Though out in the world right now some kid hasn't showered in weeks or eaten in days. Money could go to help these children who don't have food or a shower or a place to sleep. Though these scum criminals have a guaranteed bed, three meals a day, a shower and possibly snacks like soups or something. When stuff like this goes on it makes me sick to know that kids are starving and serial killers are guarenteed food every single day of their lives with three meals a day. Life in Prison is the death penalty by another name. It allow supposedly good hearted people to feel good about themselves but in the end it still effectivly ends the life of the person who recieves it. I would argue that life in prison is more cruel then then the death penalty and crueler on the economy and the families of the victims than the criminal. This isn't even about cruelty its about wasted resources that could be better used to feed and help homeless children or regular families who lost there jobs or something. Instead of going to these hardened criminals who would other wise only cause negative things in the society and communities that they live and going around in.
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